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irene
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29 Apr 2014, 9:28 am

Does anyone know why it okay to be prejudiced against certain groups of people but not others? By the way I am referring to the incident with the owner of the basketball team.

If the guy said that he hated fat people, people who are unattractive, little people, people who aren't rocket scientists would they have gotten that upset? Why is it that it is considered to be a heinous crime to say something nasty about certain people but not others? How would they feel about the guy if they never found out about his prejudice until after his death? If they liked him without knowing would they suddenly decide that he was a nasty hateful person? Ignorance is bliss.

I remember when I was a kid I was told this saying "Sticks and stones can break my bones. But words will never harm me." That's unless I decide that I want it to harm me. It's my option to allow it to harm me. I don't have to take it. Why would I give someone the power to affect me that much?

The whole thing just makes me think of that book "1984" by George Orwell.



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29 Apr 2014, 10:44 am

irene wrote:
Does anyone know why it okay to be prejudiced against certain groups of people but not others?


The basketball owner did more than just speak his prejudices; he told his wife to act on those prejudices. That is racial discrimination.

From a legal perspective, U.S. law only protects particular groups of people. These groups have been established as "protected classes". One of these classes is "race".
source, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class

LGBT people, poor people, fat people, low IQ people .... are not protected classes of people.

These non-protected groups so far have not had the political success as the protected groups.



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29 Apr 2014, 11:08 am

From what little I've read about him, he has a repuatation for being nasty. Basically, besides being racist, he is just in general a not nice person

Apparently, everyone who knew him knew he was a racist - it was no surprise to anyone in the loop. His own players don't like him. Baron Davis spoke out against him in particular. I guess they just put with him because they have to.

I would feel the same about him if he talked about any group of people this way, legalities notwithstanding.



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29 Apr 2014, 11:20 am

irene wrote:
I remember when I was a kid I was told this saying "Sticks and stones can break my bones. But words will never harm me." That's unless I decide that I want it to harm me. It's my option to allow it to harm me. I don't have to take it. Why would I give someone the power to affect me that much?


Sorry but that's a big steaming pile of crap. As a child I dealt with a lot of verbal bullying and getting singled out from other kids and even some teachers/school staff. And yes it destroyed any self confidence I had, and contributed a lot to my mental health issues I still suffer from. I heard the sticks and stones thing pleanty of times and I always found it inaccurate, in fact I always found physical pain a lot less painful/upsetting than all that mistreatment from others.

Anyways I hardly see it as deciding I wanted it to harm me....why the hell would I have wanted to be harmed in that way, and become a dysfunctional adult on SSI due to a bunch of mental problems I acquired largely due to being stuck in the hell that was public school. I didn't 'give' anyone power to effect me they just did regardless of how much I'd try not to let it get to me...they just so happened to aqquire said power and I wasn't able to take it away from them. Kinda hard when it was me vs. the other kids and some teachers/school staff. But I guess I should have just been a stronger child and not have let them do that right?

Also there is no link to what you are referring to in your post....who was the prejudice directed at, what was said, by who and in what context? I don't really follow basketball so I don't know of this incident off hand.


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29 Apr 2014, 12:00 pm

So this guys mistress slept with a black man, and he made some derogatory comments about black people to get to her. This is hardly evidence of a racist disposition. In
vitriolic arguments, most people will say outrageous things they don't believe, because the objective is to hurt the other person, not to build a coherent and logical case.



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29 Apr 2014, 12:16 pm

Stannis wrote:
So this guys mistress slept with a black man, and he made some derogatory comments about black people to get to her. This is hardly evidence of a racist disposition. In
vitriolic arguments, most people will say outrageous things they don't believe, because the objective is to hurt the other person, not to build a coherent and logical case.


You have to listen to the entire video.

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/20 ... cist-rant/

What strikes me more than the racism is the overall pattern of verbal abuse on his part.



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29 Apr 2014, 2:19 pm

Man, that's weird. So, taking him as genuine, it's fine for his girlfriend to do all sorts with people of colour in private, but there shouldn't be any public display/acknowledgement of such? Eh? Did I get that right? That's some weird f*****g racism.

As to this:

Quote:
I remember when I was a kid I was told this saying "Sticks and stones can break my bones. But words will never harm me." That's unless I decide that I want it to harm me. It's my option to allow it to harm me. I don't have to take it. Why would I give someone the power to affect me that much?


No. Words do hurt and harm, and that matters. They are intended to. Words have weight and meaning - it's how we're able to communicate seriously and sensibly and meaningfully with others. So when someone turns that against us, it matters.

What's more, where someone is saying something against us that has social or cultural or political or historical weight and power, where it is being said by more than one person, the hurt is harder.

It shouldn't be up to those on the receiving end of verbal abuse to try and mitigate its impact anymore than it should of those being physically attacked (though of course they do). The point is: don't be like that.


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irene
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29 Apr 2014, 3:58 pm

My brother and I grew up with parents who liked making fun of us. My father died in November 1966, my mother two years ago.

Even though I didn't live with my mother I always heard in my head what she said to me. Then after she died I realized that it was my fault that all those things she said to me still bothered me. Why am I still allowing all those words to get me upset? I decided that I needed to change to prevent myself from getting upset which works most of the time.

I am now 65 years of age and in my opinion I was quite successful in making myself feel miserable. I would remember all the negative things that people said to me, never the good. It finally dawned on me that I am the only person who has control on what I think and how I feel. If that doesn't happen I might as well be a puppet with the words people say to me turn into strings controlling my thoughts and my feelings.

I then decided that I had to change all of that otherwise why the hell am I here. Just to be a masochist? It better not be that. So I made a conscience decision that I would not allow the words anyone say change how I feel. They are only words. What I do with them is my decision. Not theirs.

That's how and why I came up that philosophy. I will not allow any negative comments someone has of me to get me upset. Their opinion of me should not affect me. It's only words. How would I feel if everything they said were completely positive would I feel really good about it. Maybe at first then I probably would think all of it was a joke. They were making fun of me.

I will never allow anything anyone says to me get me upset again. I still have to work at having lights on in a room without anyone in it. Mom used to complain about that.



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29 Apr 2014, 5:26 pm

People of Donald Sterling age group, at least in America, seem to have a general propensity toward racism, and this really shouldn't surprise anyone who lives in America. If you are still in denial of this you simply are not paying attention. People talk here about racism being directed toward President Obama and there is almost a consensus denial of that. What age group do most of the extremely wealthy in America belong to? And what age group is most likely to lean to the right? I am not saying that every person on the right is a racist but statistics speak for themselves. If you doubt any of this I urge you to go to a retirement home or a senior citizens community center and bring up the issue of President Obama. And pay attention to how often Tea Party Groups tend to hold meetings and organizations in close proximity to places where large numbers of older Americans congregate. That is not coincidence. And to be honest, WP would delete my posts if I were to include links to some of the crap that I put my eyeballs on during to 2012 Presidential elections. That is how nasty, racist and vile this country is on this issue. It iS about race.



irene
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29 Apr 2014, 7:44 pm

khaoz wrote:
People of Donald Sterling age group, at least in America, seem to have a general propensity toward racism, and this really shouldn't surprise anyone who lives in America. If you are still in denial of this you simply are not paying attention. People talk here about racism being directed toward President Obama and there is almost a consensus denial of that. What age group do most of the extremely wealthy in America belong to? And what age group is most likely to lean to the right? I am not saying that every person on the right is a racist but statistics speak for themselves. If you doubt any of this I urge you to go to a retirement home or a senior citizens community center and bring up the issue of President Obama. And pay attention to how often Tea Party Groups tend to hold meetings and organizations in close proximity to places where large numbers of older Americans congregate. That is not coincidence. And to be honest, WP would delete my posts if I were to include links to some of the crap that I put my eyeballs on during to 2012 Presidential elections. That is how nasty, racist and vile this country is on this issue. It iS about race.


From what I read in your message it sounds as though I am living in a cave. I used to say to people that there is no need to hate people because of their race. Get to know them first and then hate them. :roll: You are bound to find a few legitimate reasons for disliking them. This is something I said before I knew I was an Aspie which probably explains the attitude I had towards humans.



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29 Apr 2014, 8:09 pm

irene wrote:
khaoz wrote:
People of Donald Sterling age group, at least in America, seem to have a general propensity toward racism, and this really shouldn't surprise anyone who lives in America. If you are still in denial of this you simply are not paying attention. People talk here about racism being directed toward President Obama and there is almost a consensus denial of that. What age group do most of the extremely wealthy in America belong to? And what age group is most likely to lean to the right? I am not saying that every person on the right is a racist but statistics speak for themselves. If you doubt any of this I urge you to go to a retirement home or a senior citizens community center and bring up the issue of President Obama. And pay attention to how often Tea Party Groups tend to hold meetings and organizations in close proximity to places where large numbers of older Americans congregate. That is not coincidence. And to be honest, WP would delete my posts if I were to include links to some of the crap that I put my eyeballs on during to 2012 Presidential elections. That is how nasty, racist and vile this country is on this issue. It iS about race.


From what I read in your message it sounds as though I am living in a cave. I used to say to people that there is no need to hate people because of their race. Get to know them first and then hate them. :roll: You are bound to find a few legitimate reasons for disliking them. This is something I said before I knew I was an Aspie which probably explains the attitude I had towards humans.


I have mentioned before in WP some of the hateful race related scrawlings, emails, threats and pictures I received and viewed during the last elections, none of which would be allowed to link on this site because of their level of racism. My mother is 80 and I spend a lot of time around her community and hear and see some of the hateful racist rhetoric. They just got a new manager fired for basically no other reason than that she is African American. They started with their attack on her the instant she was hired. There is on African American resident in this community andf these octogenarians were slandering her and even went so far as putting notes on her vehicle calling her the N word and telling her to get out. During the elections I spent a lot of time on CL politics boards in various metropolitan regions around the country and watch Tea Party organizations making announcements of their meetings in retirement communities and around veterans groups but usually targeting veterans from WWII. This is not coincidence. This is strategy, and all you have to do is reference what is going on now and some of the public comments of Tea Party activists and candidates that caused them to lose recent elections. Racism is alive and well in America and it has been targeting this President since the day he was sworn into office in 2009...and before. I have said it before. Anyone who cannot see this racism is not paying attention.



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29 Apr 2014, 11:46 pm

Stannis wrote:
So this guys mistress slept with a black man, and he made some derogatory comments about black people to get to her. This is hardly evidence of a racist disposition. In
vitriolic arguments, most people will say outrageous things they don't believe, because the objective is to hurt the other person, not to build a coherent and logical case.


His racism went beyond his mistress associating with black guys. Mr. Sterling also owns apartment houses, and he had in the past paid the biggest fines ever leveled against a landlord for racial discrimination. The most notable being when an elderly black lady renting from him complained about a problem with the water, to which he asked her if she was "one of those blacks who smelled bad." He went on to say that the "bad smell" of blacks attracted vermin. This guy evidently has had a long history of racial hate.


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29 Apr 2014, 11:50 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
irene wrote:
I remember when I was a kid I was told this saying "Sticks and stones can break my bones. But words will never harm me." That's unless I decide that I want it to harm me. It's my option to allow it to harm me. I don't have to take it. Why would I give someone the power to affect me that much?


Sorry but that's a big steaming pile of crap. As a child I dealt with a lot of verbal bullying and getting singled out from other kids and even some teachers/school staff. And yes it destroyed any self confidence I had, and contributed a lot to my mental health issues I still suffer from. I heard the sticks and stones thing pleanty of times and I always found it inaccurate, in fact I always found physical pain a lot less painful/upsetting than all that mistreatment from others.

Anyways I hardly see it as deciding I wanted it to harm me....why the hell would I have wanted to be harmed in that way, and become a dysfunctional adult on SSI due to a bunch of mental problems I acquired largely due to being stuck in the hell that was public school. I didn't 'give' anyone power to effect me they just did regardless of how much I'd try not to let it get to me...they just so happened to aqquire said power and I wasn't able to take it away from them. Kinda hard when it was me vs. the other kids and some teachers/school staff. But I guess I should have just been a stronger child and not have let them do that right?

Also there is no link to what you are referring to in your post....who was the prejudice directed at, what was said, by who and in what context? I don't really follow basketball so I don't know of this incident off hand.


I agree. For years and years, the memories of the constant verbal abuse and humiliation I had gone through by my peers as a kid had remained with me, and with that came a whole lot of bitterness that ate holes in my soul. Sticks and stones doesn't do anything to alleviate that hate I felt toward my former tormentors.


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irene
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30 Apr 2014, 7:30 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
irene wrote:
I remember when I was a kid I was told this saying "Sticks and stones can break my bones. But words will never harm me." That's unless I decide that I want it to harm me. It's my option to allow it to harm me. I don't have to take it. Why would I give someone the power to affect me that much?


Sorry but that's a big steaming pile of crap. As a child I dealt with a lot of verbal bullying and getting singled out from other kids and even some teachers/school staff. And yes it destroyed any self confidence I had, and contributed a lot to my mental health issues I still suffer from. I heard the sticks and stones thing pleanty of times and I always found it inaccurate, in fact I always found physical pain a lot less painful/upsetting than all that mistreatment from others.

Anyways I hardly see it as deciding I wanted it to harm me....why the hell would I have wanted to be harmed in that way, and become a dysfunctional adult on SSI due to a bunch of mental problems I acquired largely due to being stuck in the hell that was public school. I didn't 'give' anyone power to effect me they just did regardless of how much I'd try not to let it get to me...they just so happened to aqquire said power and I wasn't able to take it away from them. Kinda hard when it was me vs. the other kids and some teachers/school staff. But I guess I should have just been a stronger child and not have let them do that right?

Also there is no link to what you are referring to in your post....who was the prejudice directed at, what was said, by who and in what context? I don't really follow basketball so I don't know of this incident off hand.


I agree. For years and years, the memories of the constant verbal abuse and humiliation I had gone through by my peers as a kid had remained with me, and with that came a whole lot of bitterness that ate holes in my soul. Sticks and stones doesn't do anything to alleviate that hate I felt toward my former tormentors.


"Sticks and stones doesn't do anything to alleviate that I hate I felt toward my former tormentors". You might feel that way, but when I think of that it just gets me REALLY VERY ANGRY to think that I would allow those nasty people to affect me since childhood.

Why the hell would I allow those nasty people the opportunity to make me feel miserable for so many years? My opinion is that revenge against these nasty awful people is learn how to ignore them and learn how to be happy. Have you ever heard the saying about 'pushing someone's buttons'? It's allowing other people to manipulate you so that you feel miserable. Like I said I had 2 parents that did a good job at it. Once before I wrote a message on this website about the incident when my mother let me know that if the birth control pill was around at the time of my birth I wouldn't have been born. She was a real sweetheart. :x

My attitude towards bullies was learned by going to Al-Anon meetings. Even though it's over 40 years since I went to a meeting whatever I learned by going to them is still helping me now.

I don't know about you but I will not allow anyone to manipulate me so that I feel like s**t again. It's my choice. If I can learn to remember all those nasty people I can definitely learn how to forget them. I have learned that just because I felt awful as a child it doesn't mean that I have to feel like that for the rest of my life. When I was 8 I decided that I didn't want to live beyond the age of 25.



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30 Apr 2014, 10:55 am

irene wrote:
"Sticks and stones doesn't do anything to alleviate that I hate I felt toward my former tormentors". You might feel that way, but when I think of that it just gets me REALLY VERY ANGRY to think that I would allow those nasty people to affect me since childhood.

Why the hell would I allow those nasty people the opportunity to make me feel miserable for so many years? My opinion is that revenge against these nasty awful people is learn how to ignore them and learn how to be happy. Have you ever heard the saying about 'pushing someone's buttons'? It's allowing other people to manipulate you so that you feel miserable. Like I said I had 2 parents that did a good job at it. Once before I wrote a message on this website about the incident when my mother let me know that if the birth control pill was around at the time of my birth I wouldn't have been born. She was a real sweetheart. :x

My attitude towards bullies was learned by going to Al-Anon meetings. Even though it's over 40 years since I went to a meeting whatever I learned by going to them is still helping me now.

I don't know about you but I will not allow anyone to manipulate me so that I feel like sh** again. It's my choice. If I can learn to remember all those nasty people I can definitely learn how to forget them. I have learned that just because I felt awful as a child it doesn't mean that I have to feel like that for the rest of my life. When I was 8 I decided that I didn't want to live beyond the age of 25.


Ok the problem here is you make it sound like its a concious choice or something, to be hurt/upset by peoples words. Do you honestly think I chose to develop no self esteem, no self worth, reoccurring major depression, social anxiety, generalized anxiety and then be hit with PTSD probably due to all those problems reducing my mental resilience to trauma? Do you honestly think I thought to myself 'You know I am going to let these bullies make me feel like crap and contribute to mental problems?" Trust me I tried not letting it get to me and telling myself they where the ones being jerks and I shouldn't get down on myself because what do they know....I worked my ass off to get through highschool in spite of the bullying and ostracizm because I really thought if I just put my mind to it I'd graduate, go to college and it would all get better including my mental health due to not being in that environment anymore...and damn was I wrong.

Also anytime I have ever been manipulated or used....I had no idea till I had already been manipulated and used, having autism makes it a little bit hard to know exactly what peoples intentions are and what not. I have never made any conscious choice to be manipulated, manipulative people have taken advantage of my limited social skills and fact I can be kind of oblivious sometimes.

If you have the ability to dis-allow such things from doing damage or upsetting you, then you're lucky....but I don't have the ability to choose whether or not something effects me or how. The bullying I suffered contributed quite a bit to my mental issues, I didn't choose to be effected by developing mental problems.


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