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cubedemon6073
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22 Jun 2014, 5:45 pm

I have heard people in America say this phrase many times and whenever I state certain facts about American life like employers desire a certain personality archetype this phrase is given to me in response instead of any in depth discussion. Let?s go through the logic of this and look at it in set theory terms. Let?s imagine every possible thing that is guarantee-able and we will call this set G. As an example, one can go to college and one may not be able to get a job in his field or one at all. Now let?s reverse this and let?s re-look at what I defined for set G. By logic, if one does nothing then it is not guaranteed that one will fail in life and it is not guaranteed that one will not be rich even if there is no inheritance.

What this phrase means is that one is not guaranteed any particular member of the set G in an absolute way. One is guaranteed any of the possible members or set G as a whole including but not limited to institutionalization, destitution, disease or a middle class life style with a swimming pool. Does this mean if one does nothing he is guaranteed to fail? No, because there are no guarantees in life.



simon_says
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23 Jun 2014, 10:06 am

Similar to "life's not fair". It tends to be used to denigrate or provide tough love comfort of some sort. But "life's not fair" and "nothing is guaranteed" have many applications. There is no guarantee that you will be punished for crime. It's not "fair" that you then win the lotto. Happily undeserved outcomes for someone somewhere.

If life was fair and outcomes were guaranteed (setting aside the determinism issue) we all might be worse off. I don't know why people always think that fairness would benefit them.



kraftiekortie
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23 Jun 2014, 10:22 am

Life isn't fair. There are no guarantees in life.



cubedemon6073
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23 Jun 2014, 10:37 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Life isn't fair. There are no guarantees in life.


By logic, then it is not guaranteed that this statement is true and in fact everything is guaranteed.

By logic, if there are no guarantees no matter what one does then why do?

By logic, if there are no guarantees no matter what one does then how is anyone in complete control and responsible for their own lives as claimed? By this logic, this is not guaranteed so by logic the American belief system is inconsistent.



Last edited by cubedemon6073 on 23 Jun 2014, 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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23 Jun 2014, 10:43 am

Every belief is inconsistent, even the supposedly consistent ones.



kraftiekortie
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23 Jun 2014, 10:45 am

You have to create guarantees for yourself.

You have to augment the fairness which is placed upon you by others. You can't merely rely on it.



cubedemon6073
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23 Jun 2014, 10:45 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Every belief is inconsistent, even the supposedly consistent ones.


So, the belief you just stated here is inconsistent as well then? By logic of what you said, a consistent belief system must exist.



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23 Jun 2014, 10:47 am

There is one guarantee in life....everyone dies someday.


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kraftiekortie
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23 Jun 2014, 10:50 am

Perhaps.

At this point, though, it has less qualifiers than other beliefs--most definitely.

Perhaps it would be more correct to state that it is my impression, my opinion, my subjective belief.

Always subject to change, depending upon circumstance.

But I hold rather rock-solid impressions, opinions, beliefs.



cubedemon6073
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23 Jun 2014, 10:55 am

Quote:
You have to create guarantees for yourself.


If there are no guarantees then how is it guaranteed that one has to do this? This makes no sense and is again inconsistent.

Quote:
You have to augment the fairness which is placed upon you by others.


Again, if there are no guarantees then why do? My augmentation does not affect the guarantee ability of any outcome right so again why do instead of rely? Why does it matter if I do or rely?

Let's look at this.

(do or rely) >>nothing is guaranteed.

do
nothing is guaranteed.

rely
nothing is guaranteed.

Quote:
You can't merely rely on it.


If there are no guarantees then why would it be better for me to do instead of rely? It is not guaranteed that the outcome that one wishes will happen right no matter what action he takes or doesn't take, right? Again my question, why do instead of rely? How would "doing" affect my outcome the way I desire? The American demands placed upon people make no sense.



Last edited by cubedemon6073 on 23 Jun 2014, 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

cubedemon6073
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23 Jun 2014, 10:59 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
There is one guarantee in life....everyone dies someday.


True!



cubedemon6073
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23 Jun 2014, 11:18 am

http://sotomayortv.com/rodgerelliot/


Look in the 2nd paragraph of the video.

Quote:
You only get what you work for.


If nothing is guaranteed then how does this hold up that the only way to obtain success is that you work for it? Nothing is guaranteed right?

Quote:
and even then you may not get it!


If this is true and one is not guaranteed an outcome he desires then why bother putting in and expending the energy to exert whatsoever?

By American logic of nothing being guaranteed, if one does nothing, relies and exerts no energy then one is still not guaranteed to fail or not get it. Why work hard when working hard guarantees nothing just liking doing nothing guarantees nothing?

A. If work hard I'm guaranteed nothing.

B. If I do nothing I'm guaranteed nothing.

What would anyone choose if this is the reality of life? Ding! Ding! Ding! If you choose B, then you're the next contestant on the Price is Right.



kraftiekortie
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23 Jun 2014, 2:23 pm

Life is not a bunch of syllogisms. They don't work for me. Life revolves around reacting to the situation presented to you.



kraftiekortie
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23 Jun 2014, 2:46 pm

Nothing is guaranteed, even if effort is expended. Absolutely!! !

I often find it rewarding, though, that the effort is even expended.

Sometimes, I feel a sense of futility--then I might question the effort expended. But only for a moment.



cubedemon6073
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24 Jun 2014, 10:17 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Nothing is guaranteed, even if effort is expended. Absolutely!! !

I often find it rewarding, though, that the effort is even expended.

Sometimes, I feel a sense of futility--then I might question the effort expended. But only for a moment.


Why expend effort then if I have no guaranteed return on the effort of my expenditures? I don't get it. It makes no sense to me.

Heads I have the possibility of losing, winning or something else.

Tails I have the possibility of losing, winning or something else.

Heads=Do

Tails=Rely

You're telling me to do. Why? Why do when the outcome leads to the same conclusion?



cubedemon6073
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24 Jun 2014, 10:18 am

I have further inquiry about this.

It is claimed in America one has this extreme form of internal locus of control and one must believe this absolutely and one has complete control over his life. How does this "truth" hold up if no guarantees exist in life and if one can't create something that is guarantee-able?

Do you understand why America beliefs and truisms that exist here come across to me as nonsensical to me when put into formal logical proofs, they're inconsistent with any kind of rationality, logic, and empirical evidence? The American standards being fed and told to me make absolutely no sense to me and I don't grasp them in the slightest.