About victimization.... let's discuss

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This is a bit more of a gloves off forum, so I thought I'd put this here. It's about victimization. Feeling that you are a perpetual victim of something that's happened in the past, or always like a future potential victim. I'm not talking about people feeling that way who get bullied day in and day out or some other thing that is continuous, I'm talking about people who have had bad things happen in the past and who still see intent where none is, everywhere. People who get upset not only when they see or hear about similar situations to theirs, but when something comes up that reminds them of the situation even though it's nothing like it.

I feel that while people can certainly be victims of crime and of abuse, but when it becomes the central focus of their lives and they look for it everywhere under the guise of preventing it for someone else, etc, that they are just victimizing themselves.

What do you all think? What makes someone a victim of something in the long run, and not just in the immediate aftermath and the literal sense of the word? I guess it's victim mentality that I'm talking about here. What do you think causes that and what do you think can be done to prevent it and to help those who have it?

Up until a week ago, I lived my whole life as being a 'victim' of something or another.

A 'victim' of childhood abuse...a 'victim' of sexual and mental discrimination...a 'victim' of a corrupt and unjust system...a 'victim' of an ultra competitive, greedy and uncaring society...yada....yada...

So, gloves off time (as you like it):

Do you know what happens when you are constantly 'victimised'? you learn how to play that part very well, and then any justification becomes totally lost in a sea of self-pity and loathing.

Do you also know what? Nobody else but you honestly gives a f***.

I'm not speaking personally, I am using 'you' as 'those who are not me'.

When you realise that 'you're totally on your own', where does the 'victim' go? inside their own minds...then what happens? they believe they are a 'victim', always will be a 'victim' and attract circumstances to themselves that only serve to re-enforce the victimisation. It is a vicious cycle, isn't it?

So, when you realise that nobody cares but you and you can actually become pro-active in your choice to do something about it - 'yeah, all those things happened, but so bloody what, am I going to let them keep on happening and ruining my life?'

When that realisation occurs, the ropes just start to loosen just a little bit.

Exactly. Then you realize that you can learn to put a stop to it, or at least lessen it. That's hard to start to do, speaking up, standing up for yourself, etc. It takes time to do with right and you fail a lot but you do get victories too. The victories make you more confident and the failures make you not go home and kick yourself for not saying anything even though it didn't work that time. It takes time to find your style and what works for you, trial and error. But at least you are doing something about it. Classes, mentoring, lots of things can help with that.

I have a different take on the term.

Everyone is always projecting their morals and such on everyone else. If they were real people, they would all realize that they do not apply to everyone and that people are intelligent enough to define themselves instead of advocating some sort of "golden standard." What is especially infuriating is when that supposed standard is disregarded, the people who do disregard are considered radicals, bullies, and other horrid things. I don't see how any worse the side that wants to break free can be than the side that is always persecuting what is different, except for maybe letting their anger get the better of them.

It may sound a little controversial but I sometimes get the impression that some "victims" don't necessarily become victims until other people or society in general tells them that they have been victimised and express sympathy and "support" etc towards them; at which point the person adopts the "I'm a victim" persona and feels sorry for themselves. Events that may have had little real impact on the persons life become blown out of all proportion and then influence their outlook and behaviour in a very negative way.

Some can't help it,maybe they have PTSD from traumatic events,and then some just like to whine.Depends on the events and the person.

People, I believe, have to forcefully remove themselves from the "victimization" ideology. Otherwise, they will be eaten alive.

/\ This

Yup,let's just tell all those vets with PTSD to stop playing the victim.Just suck it up,ain't nothing wrong with you boy.
Some can't shut off flashbacks from traumatic events,some can.Some individuals are stronger and more able to deal with life's traumas,some aren't.Why judge them for their fears?They are real to them.
I suppose victims of childhood abuse should suck it up also.
There is no shame in being a victim,the shame is being the predator or oppressor,and shame on those who feel no compassion for those who have been dealt cruel blows in life.

Why?

Exactly. OOM's and that other person's posts I think are essentially encouragement for the perpetrators, the predators, and the oppressors. It justifies them and throws down their victims.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness

I don't want to downplay the real suffering of those with PTSD such as veterans. I did find it interesting though that in the aftermath of the 911 attacks in America that it was subsequently reported that many of those who had counselling often became more traumatised by the counselling than those who had no counselling (when the initial exposure to trauma was the same). It was as though the counselling made the matter worse for some people! Maybe some people have a better ability to shrug stuff off and get on with their lives and dredging up the incident just made the psychological impact worse.

Let's look at another angle of this.A woman has been severely beaten for years by her husband,she has finally had enough and will not be a victim anymore.So she gets the 30/30,waits till he's asleep, and blows his head off.Great,now they are both victims.
What would have been the solution?Better laws to protect people from predators,and others to stand up and say,"That's unacceptable."If you see an injustice,don't be a bystander.
To a certain extent, we will all be some sort of a victim,sad,but true.Its great if someone toughens up,but just how tough do you want them to be?
Take me,I've been a victim,and I toughed it out.Has it made me a nicer person?No,it has not.A survivor yes,but I remember every injustice done to me.And there is a small dictator in my heart that would like to pay them all back.But that would be morally wrong and illegal.That is why I can feel infinite compassion for helpless beings,but a hard time feeling it for some people.I can detach and have no feelings at all.Edit,this is incorrect,my kids love their dad,and I'd never want them to hurt like that
Toughen up to the point where you have no feelings for your fellow man,then the people around you may have some real problems.

Last edited by Misslizard on 30 Jun 2014, 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

That's the thing, if you're going to question and explore what has happened to you...ones' mind can blow things out of proportion and come up with new ideas/emotions added onto the original trauma. I think you said this earlier.

Councilling on its own isn't nearly enough - people in that sort of situation (if they could possibly be taught) need teaching how to constructively handle their thoughts and emotions and see the logic in the situation of what actually happened. But then, nobody wants to be taught how to think, they backlash because it's stepping into their private bubble/belief system. People just want to be listened to, but that doesn't solve anything.

What gets me is it seems OK for women to do that but not men, consider all the anger and victim complexes over how some of you women been treated by men. its not like all men do this or are that way yet its almost like your trying to blame them all and want them all to do something about it when its a one on one deal dealing with each individual. Men do it too but when they do its called entitlement issues or that their being sexist and playing the victim. even men treat men badly, and women too. it goes both ways. you cant expect to get sympathy from one sex if you refuse to acknowledge the other genders complaints as well.

Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.
Otherwise just suck it up as you expect men too.