Palestinian boy 12, vows vengeance against Israel

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Hamas wouldn't be in power in the first place if Israel had accepted Arafat's 'peace for land' deal. They are a symptom of Israeli intransigence.

Without condoning them, even if they are conscientiously placing rockets near civilians it is part and parcel of the ugly side of guerrilla warfare. In Vietnam, the Vietcong operated in and around close to civilian settlements. When facing a far larger foe it is one of the only effective strategies available, especially whenever said enemy refuses to fight on the ground with discriminate tactics and instead cowardly uses jet bombers and artillery on a people without any effective anti air defence or semi accurate ranged weapons. Israel really aren't in a position to accuse anyone of under handed tactics.

So what would you suggest Israel does to stop missile attacks on their civvies?
The citizens of Gaza are hit disproportionally of course. I don't know how they can resolve the situation. Both sides have burned their ships behind them.

Some enemies of Israel, even sometimes leaders of big nations, claim that Israel does not have a right to exist at all. I do not recall Israel ever saying that about Palestinians or Muslims. Some of Israel's enemies want to finish the work Hitler started. And it has been my impression over the past few decades, although I am less naive now, that Israel at least tries to target military targets while the Palestinians frequently blew up innocent women and children on purpose.

Israel does exist and is not going to go away soon. If they do go away that would probably mean a situation in which nobody else could inhabit that land for quite a while either. I am not as convinced that the Israelis are entirely the good guys as much as I was twenty or thirty years ago, but I still support their side more than the Palestinians for the reasons I gave in my first paragraph.

I hope they can work things out between them peacefully, or if they don't that it doesn't end up bringing on Armageddon. But if humans do wipe themselves out over such pettiness, then so be it. We'd deserve to go extinct.

Here?s the way it works: Hamas deliberately fires its rockets from densely populated civilian areas, using hospitals, disability centers, mosques and schools as launching sites. This puts Israel to the tragic choice of either allowing the rockets to endanger its civilians or to destroy the rocket launchers, thereby risking civilian casualties among Hamas? human shields. Often Israel chooses to forgo attacking military targets, so as not to put Palestinian civilians at risk. Sometimes it has no choice, because the rocket fire against its civilians is persistent. Palestinian civilians are killed despite Israel?s best efforts precisely because Hamas wants civilians to be killed, especially if these civilians are children, women or the elderly. Hamas stands ready to parade these human shields in front of the media which is eager to show the dead and count the bodies.

Hamas could easily reduce the death and injury toll among its civilians, by simply allowing them to go underground into tunnels and shelters which abound throughout Gaza. But Hamas has a deliberate policy of refusing to allow civilians to enter the tunnels or shelters.

The media also emphasizes the fact that thus far no Israelis have been killed by Hamas rocket fire. Indeed some media and international organizations seem implicitly to be condemning Israel for protecting the lives of its own citizens, by repeatedly pointing out that none have died, while Palestinian deaths have reached nearly 200. The reason there have been no Israeli deaths so far is because Israel spends hundreds of millions of dollars trying to protect its civilians, while Hamas spends its resources deliberately exposing its civilians to the risks of Israeli counterattacks.

The Iron dome has been working pretty effectively till now, so its a non-issue.

The recent truce proposal that the Palestinians have drawn up seems like a good deal because it involves the intervention of non biased nations to act as supervisors. It will allow Gaza to rebuild its infrastructure and ensure that Hamas cannot launch rockets. The Israelis should accept it.

You are talking about an area the size of a modest city with a million people squashed into it. There is no place in gaza that can be described as not densely populated.

As for Israel spending millions on protecting its citizens, it receives copious amounts of financial aid from the USA. The Gazans have no luxury of a similar donor.

You also paint it as the Gazans are evil anti semites hellbent on the destruction of the Jews for the sake of it. Its not black and white like that. They are a dispossessed people living under Israeli military siege. They are denied the right to return and have utilities and resource curtailed.

Last edited by thomas81 on 17 Jul 2014, 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Then, if they truly care about their people, maybe they should stop firing rockets. <gasp> And since the Gazans are the aggressor, I'm glad they don't as they would put the money into more ways to attack.

The Gazans are not the aggressor. This is an oppressed - coloniser oppressor relationship. The Gazans are the oppressed.

The only reason Israel stopped building illegal settlements on Gaza was the duress of rocket launches. Which only goes to prove that Israel either way would continue to keep annexing land. The reason Israel refuses to define a Israel-Palestine border is because they regard Gaza and the West Bank as their territory. To the Israelis, it is unimportant if Hamas stops the rocket launches or not because either way their end game is the same - An Israel stretching from the meditteranean to Jordan and no homeland for the indigenous arabs. For the Gazans the rockets are probably the only thing delaying their cultural and national genocide.

Hamas gained power the same way Hitler and Mussolini did: By taking advantage of the people and gaining their sympathy during a tense political situation. Your statement could just as well be used to blame the commies for the rise of Taliban in Afghanistan, or the Wall Street brokers for the rise of the Nazis.



It's still a cowardly thing to do--and it just shows that you do not care about the civilians as long as you have your power and your wealth



The best strategy against a larger foe is to simply not pick a fight with them. The fact that Hamas violates every ceasefire shows that their leaders are not only sociopaths, they're also unintelligent.

Ultimately, the rocket attacks will be the end of their "culture" as Israel will ultimately have to wipe them out. You seem to think that this territory was at some period a Palestinian controlled territory. Prior to Israel controlling it, it was Egypt, prior to that, the UK, prior to that, the Ottomans. The Palestinian people are from Jordan and even Jordan doesn't want them back. The plight of the Palestinian people lies strictly on their own shoulders.

Giving Gaza back to Egypt and jailing the Hamas leaders would probably solve the situation.

Nonetheless, Israel should have accepted Arafat's proposal. If they had, the region would not be in the mess it finds itself.


Speaking of cowards... ...remind me who it is using aerial bombing and artillery on a territory without effective defence against either?


In other scenarios I would agree, but it is rather more difficult when said larger foe wants your territory and is determined to annex it.

Why do you use parenthesis as if to imply they have no culture? The western chauvinism on this forum never ceases to astound me.

Either way, Israel would seek to genocide them, regardless of whether they stop the rocket launches or not. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

Don't take my word for it, listen to a rabbi.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_ZiVRedU-4#t=223[/youtube]

You may want to check out what Land for Peace really was, and how little Arafat had to do with it.





Having the upper hand does not equal cowardice.



The vast majority of the settlements are on the West Bank (controlled by Fatah), not on the Gaza strip.

Israel in no way would seek to genocide them. When was the last time Israel violated a cease fire or attacked them unprovoked? Every time Israel has attacked them it has been in response to Hamas attacking Israel.