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Do we need governments?
Yes 74%  74%  [ 25 ]
No 26%  26%  [ 9 ]
Total votes : 34

Corvus
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08 Feb 2007, 7:27 pm

Governments. Do we need them?

The "No" option means that "Government" is basically:
"The recognition and protection of the rights of the individual to life, liberty, and property are the only proper purposes of government." (Libertarian view point)

There is no "gray" area. Either you are for a government (conservative, left, right, dictator, I dont care) or no government

Again, NO middle ground, this is just a simple (yup, simple) question.

(I really should say "Governments, do we need them ANYMORE" (that way, I can incorporate government as merely a "stage" in evolution, as a whole, as it DID have its purposes, imo))



TheMachine1
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08 Feb 2007, 7:38 pm

Yes.



Corvus
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08 Feb 2007, 8:40 pm

I need to vote :oops:



Awesomelyglorious
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08 Feb 2007, 10:18 pm

When you speak of no government, do you mean complete minarchism? Or will there be power to tax and modify rules based upon certain needs of the people including based upon externalities and certain market failures? Will the government have control of the money supply and be allowed to practice monetary policy? What about existing governmental interventions such as public education and things of that matter, will those have to be banned, will they be maintained, will there be a power to change policies in case of failures?



Corvus
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08 Feb 2007, 10:43 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
When you speak of no government, do you mean complete minarchism? Or will there be power to tax and modify rules based upon certain needs of the people including based upon externalities and certain market failures? Will the government have control of the money supply and be allowed to practice monetary policy? What about existing governmental interventions such as public education and things of that matter, will those have to be banned, will they be maintained, will there be a power to change policies in case of failures?


You ask many question. Corvus not in state of mind to really answer all of them.

www.libertarian.ca

basically... If you don't like the answers, think of a way...

<Singing>Well, I tell people there are no problems. . . Only solutions</singing>

I thought of possibilities. I don't see why there aren't others. Think outside the box.



psych
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09 Feb 2007, 6:53 am

This question deserves more than a snap answer. I will have to read the anarchist FAQ & think long and hard before answering;

http://www.infoshop.org/faq/index.html



richardbenson
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09 Feb 2007, 10:06 am

if the earth had a population of a few thousand id say no. unfortunatley there's too many people here. government (ret*d as it may be) performs an important structure to civilized society, wich religion did in the past, create a set of standards for everyone to live by. there would be a whole lot of chaos if there wasnt government


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Corvus
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09 Feb 2007, 10:39 am

richardbenson wrote:
if the earth had a population of a few thousand id say no. unfortunatley there's too many people here. government (ret*d as it may be) performs an important structure to civilized society, wich religion did in the past, create a set of standards for everyone to live by. there would be a whole lot of chaos if there wasnt government


Why? Whats the government specifically doing to prevent chaos?

Are you under the impression that removing governments is "removing laws" and "police enforcement?"



richardbenson
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09 Feb 2007, 11:37 am

Corvus wrote:
richardbenson wrote:
if the earth had a population of a few thousand id say no. unfortunatley there's too many people here. government (ret*d as it may be) performs an important structure to civilized society, wich religion did in the past, create a set of standards for everyone to live by. there would be a whole lot of chaos if there wasnt government

Why? Whats the government specifically doing to prevent chaos?
Are you under the impression that removing governments is "removing laws" and "police enforcement?"
no, but fractions inside a country where there isnt one unified government can't stand, look at countrys, who have fractions in there government. everyone needs to be on the same page when it comes to large populations and to some certain extent controld freedom. otherwise this place turns into a prison planet were anyone can do what they want, more than they can now.


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Corvus
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09 Feb 2007, 12:45 pm

richardbenson wrote:
Corvus wrote:
richardbenson wrote:
if the earth had a population of a few thousand id say no. unfortunatley there's too many people here. government (ret*d as it may be) performs an important structure to civilized society, wich religion did in the past, create a set of standards for everyone to live by. there would be a whole lot of chaos if there wasnt government

Why? Whats the government specifically doing to prevent chaos?
Are you under the impression that removing governments is "removing laws" and "police enforcement?"
no, but fractions inside a country where there isnt one unified government can't stand, look at countrys, who have fractions in there government. everyone needs to be on the same page when it comes to large populations and to some certain extent controld freedom. otherwise this place turns into a prison planet were anyone can do what they want, more than they can now.


Thats why we have laws and laws exist now, in today's society. Of course, many many many laws would be removed as they are more a hinderance to society then a benefit (drug laws promote crime via risk - a drug dealer is a drug dealer because of the amount of money involved. If it were legal, the risk drops considerably and the "risk" is removed, thus, removing the profit associated with the danger - Prohibition of liquor proved this).

People cannot do whatever they want in a free society OR in this society. "Freedom" doesn't mean "do whatever I want because I CAN" it means "Do whatever you want with an exercise of responsibility and judgement." Freedom goes hand and hand with "responsibility." Freedom to choose. People hear "freedom" and they think "do whatever I can whenever I want to whatever I want." Thats just irresponsible. I don't kill people, now, not because of "law" but because killing someone means I'm open to the idea of being killed myself. Do unto others as they would do unto you (or however the saying goes).



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09 Feb 2007, 12:56 pm

Corvus wrote:
"Freedom" doesn't mean "do whatever I want because I CAN" it means "Do whatever you want with an exercise of responsibility and judgement." Freedom goes hand and hand with "responsibility." Freedom to choose. People hear "freedom" and they think "do whatever I can whenever I want to whatever I want." Thats just irresponsible.
very good. most people arent this smart wich is why we need some kind of government. if there was nobody telling you, with consequences non the less what was right and wrong, (i'm not saying that all governemt laws are correct, but most of the important ones are coverd) this planet would be a mess, i'm telling you lol.


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Corvus
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09 Feb 2007, 1:16 pm

richardbenson wrote:
Corvus wrote:
"Freedom" doesn't mean "do whatever I want because I CAN" it means "Do whatever you want with an exercise of responsibility and judgement." Freedom goes hand and hand with "responsibility." Freedom to choose. People hear "freedom" and they think "do whatever I can whenever I want to whatever I want." Thats just irresponsible.


very good. most people arent this smart wich is why we need some kind of government. if there was nobody telling you, with consequences non the less what was right and wrong, (i'm not saying that all governemt laws are correct, but most of the important ones are coverd) this planet would be a mess, i'm telling you lol.


Understood but this argument is better for a "complete removal of police/enforcement."

Again, laws STILL exist without government. You aren't 100% free to walk around and murder people. Nothing changes, here. You have more laws removed to help you better protect yourself (personal defence is your right as police officers don't actually protect you during an actual crime NOR are they obligated to "die" for you).



richardbenson
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09 Feb 2007, 1:26 pm

Corvus wrote:
Again, laws STILL exist without government. You aren't 100% free to walk around and murder people.
what laws exist without government? didnt government make all the laws? even if you go back to the earliest civilizations they had a form of government and a set of rules to obey, i'm a little confused at what your trying to get at here. you are free to walk around killing people if you want, but if you get caught and convicted of that there's a consequence.


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Corvus
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09 Feb 2007, 1:56 pm

richardbenson wrote:
Corvus wrote:
Again, laws STILL exist without government. You aren't 100% free to walk around and murder people.
what laws exist without government? didnt government make all the laws? even if you go back to the earliest civilizations they had a form of government and a set of rules to obey, i'm a little confused at what your trying to get at here. you are free to walk around killing people if you want, but if you get caught and convicted of that there's a consequence.


ok, I guess when I stated, in my first post, about what governments should do, I should have been much more clear.

Quote:
"The "No" option means that "Government" is basically:
"The recognition and protection of the rights of the individual to life, liberty, and property are the only proper purposes of government." (Libertarian view point) "


Which basically states police, military, and a high court. There involvement in your life is basically restricted to that.

Again, my apologies, but when I say "No Government," it really means "extremely limited" (I'm just used to saying "none") :wink:



richardbenson
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09 Feb 2007, 2:39 pm

gotcha. yeah, limited as possible please. :D


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Corvus
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09 Feb 2007, 4:05 pm

richardbenson wrote:
gotcha. yeah, limited as possible please. :D


Ya, I'd agree that total removal of the law area would be horrible.. haha no argument :D