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khaoz
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21 Jul 2014, 4:18 pm

..because aliens are going to hell

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/21/c ... Y.facebook



trollcatman
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21 Jul 2014, 4:22 pm

He is almost (but not quite) saying that finding alien life would disprove the Bible. Let's get out there, see if the aliens can confirm the Creation story.



khaoz
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21 Jul 2014, 4:29 pm

trollcatman wrote:
He is almost (but not quite) saying that finding alien life would disprove the Bible. Let's get out there, see if the aliens can confirm the Creation story.



Ken Ham talking about his faith disproves the Bible.



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21 Jul 2014, 4:37 pm

I think a literal interpretation of the Bible is easily disproven. But most Christians today do not adhere to a literalist interpration. It would be like reading Shakespeare and missing every metaphor. MacBeth can't wash the blood off his hands because he is lousy at washing his hands.
I first saw this Ken Ham person in the documentary (mockumentary) Religulous. He seems like the average fanatic. Don't attempt to reason with them, it just encourages the bastards.



Janissy
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21 Jul 2014, 4:44 pm

(from the link)

Quote:
?You see, the Bible makes it clear that Adam?s sin affected the whole universe. This means that any aliens would also be affected by Adam?s sin, but because they are not Adam?s descendants, they can?t have salvation,? he explained. ?Jesus did not become the ?GodKlingon? or the ?GodMartian?! Only descendants of Adam can be saved. God?s Son remains the ?Godman? as our Savior.?


By this logic all non-human animals would also be going to Hell. They are no more Adam's descendents than martian bacteria are.

These Christians that google found for me (by googling 'do animals go to heaven?') don't think that being a descendent of Adam is mandatory.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/201 ... paging=off
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Yet the Bible teaches that God does save animals. For example, God brought Noah two of each kind of living creature in order to save them from the Flood. God chastised reluctant Jonah about the need to save not only the human inhabitants of Nineveh, but also its many animals. Such salvation is not, of course, quite the kind invited by the altar call. Even so, it should not be overlooked.

God not only saves animals. At times, his covenants include them. God's covenant with Noah included "every living thing of all flesh" (Gen. 6:18-19, KJV). In Hosea, God proclaimed a covenant "with the beasts of the field, the birds in the sky and the creatures that move along the ground" (2:18, niv).


That doesn't sound like damnation awaits all non-humans automatically.

In any case, why would this guy worship a God so cruel as to make damnation inevitable for some living beings due to a simple accident of planet of origin. The God in that Christianity Today link is much more compassionate.



TallyMan
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21 Jul 2014, 4:58 pm

Why does anyone pay any attention to this Ken Ham? He sounds like a fringe, deranged nut job.


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Janissy
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21 Jul 2014, 5:24 pm

TallyMan wrote:
Why does anyone pay any attention to this Ken Ham? He sounds like a fringe, deranged nut job.


He does sound like that, but (in the U.S. at least) that sometimes gets interpreted as speaking truth to power. When people from the "opposite" side go up against him with rationality, it only strengthens his base since his rational opponents appear to many as the power to whom he is speaking truth. That's what happened when Bill Nye tried to debate him rationally.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ience.html

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Ham had nothing to lose. When you exist on the cultural fringe and make your living by antagonizing established authority, there?s no form of media attention you don?t love. All Ham had to do was sit still for two-and-a-half hours, sound vaguely professional, and pander occasionally to his base. Sure, if you listened closely, what Ham was saying made absolutely no scientific sense. But debate is a format of impressions, not facts. Ham sounded like a reasonable human being, loosely speaking, and that?s what mattered.


The people in the best position to go up against him are not Bill Nye or other science types. It's people who share some of his beliefs but not so fringe or deranged or nut job. People who are not the power he is opposing.



AntDog
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21 Jul 2014, 7:55 pm

TallyMan wrote:
Why does anyone pay any attention to this Ken Ham? He sounds like a fringe, deranged nut job.

As a Christian I find Ken Ham to be crazy like Kent Hovind whom is also a dino worshiper that distorts the book of Genesis to his belief that dinosaurs co-existed with humans.



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21 Jul 2014, 10:33 pm

If intelligent life existed elsewhere, wouldn't God send Space Jesus to get butchered on a Space Cross for their sins? I mean, I know he didn't do that for the entirety of North and South America, but whatever.



AspieOtaku
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21 Jul 2014, 11:51 pm

Hes no different from Kent Hovind or Ray Comfort.


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Humanaut
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22 Jul 2014, 12:30 am

Janissy wrote:
Quote:
?You see, the Bible makes it clear that Adam?s sin affected the whole universe. This means that any aliens would also be affected by Adam?s sin, but because they are not Adam?s descendants, they can?t have salvation,? he explained. ?Jesus did not become the ?GodKlingon? or the ?GodMartian?! Only descendants of Adam can be saved. God?s Son remains the ?Godman? as our Savior.?

By this logic all non-human animals would also be going to Hell.

Only if they have a soul, but that's pretty much ruled out by the experts. Without a soul there is nothing going nowhere. Do aliens have souls? Perhaps not.

http://christianity.about.com/od/whatdo ... heaven.htm



TallyMan
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22 Jul 2014, 3:06 am

Humanaut wrote:
Janissy wrote:
Quote:
?You see, the Bible makes it clear that Adam?s sin affected the whole universe. This means that any aliens would also be affected by Adam?s sin, but because they are not Adam?s descendants, they can?t have salvation,? he explained. ?Jesus did not become the ?GodKlingon? or the ?GodMartian?! Only descendants of Adam can be saved. God?s Son remains the ?Godman? as our Savior.?

By this logic all non-human animals would also be going to Hell.

Only if they have a soul, but that's pretty much ruled out by the experts. Without a soul there is nothing going nowhere. Do aliens have souls? Perhaps not.

http://christianity.about.com/od/whatdo ... heaven.htm


Based on what we know about neuroscience, humans have no souls either, it makes the concept of heaven somewhat mute then. :lol:


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naturalplastic
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22 Jul 2014, 3:48 am

TheGoggles wrote:
If intelligent life existed elsewhere, wouldn't God send Space Jesus to get butchered on a Space Cross for their sins? I mean, I know he didn't do that for the entirety of North and South America, but whatever.


Exactly.

There might have been a Gray guy martyred on a cross on that planet around Reticuli where the UFO's supposidly come from- who died for the sins of the Gray aliens who live there.

Theyre mightve been a billion saviors scattered throughout the Cosmos! One for each inhabited planet.



Last edited by naturalplastic on 22 Jul 2014, 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

DentArthurDent
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22 Jul 2014, 5:19 am

I only wish that Fuckwit would get a dialect coach. His views are bad enough but that he espouses them in an Australian accent is just mortifying, Talking of which here is the latest trash to enter the Federal Senate

Jackie Lambie


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22 Jul 2014, 2:01 pm

Like he'd know what aliens believed in to begin with, if aliens exist. Ah, but nothing matters if everyone's going to Hell, right? :roll:


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22 Jul 2014, 2:31 pm

I normally stay away from discussions like this; but when Pat Robertson tells you you're making Christianity look stupid, you really need to take a good, hard look at yourself and the image you're presenting.


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