Evolution is BS and based on guesses

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Im aware of panspermia. Its a notion kicked around by both scientistist and by cranks, but its not an actual 'theory" like evolution that is used as a model for research. And its not the same thing as your aliens pregramming evolution theory anyway. Panspermia is just seeding life in space and letting it do its thing. This preprogramming idea takes it beyond that, but thats another subject.

Lying doesnt help your cause.
Denying that you're demanding to be taken seriously when in fact you ARE demanding to be taken seriously is a lie.

And while we are on the subject: how come you dismiss the idea that the moon is made of cotten candy and inhabited by my little ponies with smurfs faking evidence that its made of rock? Are you disturbed by my "penetrating questions" about your "religious beliefs"?

That isn't how science works. You need to provide evidence that your claim is correct, not just say "my claim is not inconsistent with what we know". Your claim also isn't supported by what we know, so there's no reason to believe it.

I am expecting to be taken seriously, not demanding.

Why can't you say what bothers you about pre-determined evolution as presented in Prometheus? I found the beloved science that shows cellular determinism.



I never dismissed it. I previously admitted that I don't know what the Moon consists of.

Here is an interesting review of the movie Prometheus.

http://shabogangraffiti.blogspot.com/20 ... round.html

It explains rather well how this thread about evolution suddenly found itself talking about panspermia.

The movie tells us nothing about how life may have come to exist on earth. But it tells us a lot about how (agrarian culture) humans tend to think about the world and the things in it. As biology, it is silly. As sociology, it is rather interesting.

The snip I quoted is from the Gardeners and Engineers chapter of the review. The review unfortunately starts with the "male fear of female reproduction" which starts so many reviews of Ridley Scott movies. But the broader part that I think is relevent to this thread come in at Gardeners and Engineers.

Last edited by Janissy on 01 Aug 2014, 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

I cited scientific research above that shows cellular determinism and that is premise of Prometheus.

So, what more is needed ?

You apparently never saw the movie. It shows us precisely how life came about. The black goo + xenomorph are the primordial goo in the opening sequence. And it shows how this "primordial goo" formed life. I even showed the picture in my original post.

The alien "xenomorphs" are called "engineers" because they "engineered" humanity from their own DNA. That is why we look like them. They are fantastic genetic engineers.

I did see the movie. And I greatly enjoyed it. But as others have pointed out, "fictional narrative that doesn't require discarding existing evidence" is not at all the same as "what we can infer from the existing evidence".

I am not discarding "existing evidence". Actually , I cited research above, that shows the premise of Prometheus of deterministic evolution.

Evolution Is Deterministic, Not Random, Biologists Conclude From Multi-species Study
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 123929.htm

Sounds like the basis for a funny movie script.

What I highlighted did not come to the conclusion of "cellular determinism", nor "genetic determinism" for that matter. It comes to the conclusion that "developmental evolution is primarily governed by selection and/or selection-independent constraints, not stochastic processes such as drift in unconstrained phenotypic space." (as previously quoted).

And neither of the mechanisms in the study (selection or selection-independent constraints) have anything to do with your Prometheus claim. You apparently haven't the slightest idea of what these two concepts even are.

You are hijacking a scientific study - that you obviously haven't read a single word of - and misrepresenting it as evidence for your silly Hollywood claim using childish word play, sloppy definitions of terms and a non sequitur.

I might as well cite a study demonstrating the natural laws governing the electrical conductivity of clouds as evidence that a man struck by lightning has incurred the wrath of God.

It seems "brain shutdown" as observed by many frustrated forum members is not merely the common denial by those believing in spiritual origins of mankind, but a reaction which essentially includes rejection of Scientific Method and it's conclusions which don't agree with their deity based beliefs.

This evidences a lack of and fear of scientific understanding which might refute some part of their holy training; they're very serious about this. When they were little children their parents told them so and by golly they hold those beliefs dear, and always will; this is a "fixed belief."

So showing these people an organism that has survived for billions of years............and which helped to create the first oxygen bearing atmosphere....would be a waste of time because any such "evidence" is automatically rejected as being not consistent with the teachings of the Bible. Some people believe so strongly they would rather die, and let their children die, than take medicine for illness; this is a "very" fixed belief beyond any scientific discussion or appeals to change.

There are tribes in jungles that still have not seen outside human contact. I do not feel the need to rush amongst them to praise and pass the light of science. In the same way I do not feel it's necessary to educate every person I meet. They're entitled to their "beliefs" just as much as I'm entitled to mine, even though I feel my position is more correct (in this modern scientific world).

But then this is just one aspie's view.

It wasnt aliens that preprogrammed it all.

It was obviously trolls that did it.

It was published in the Journal of Current Biology and the National Science Foundation, with the title of "Evolution is Deterministic, Not Random" and summary to explain deterministic evolution was happening, not randomness.

It states right on the published site I cited: "For example, they concluded that the number of cell divisions needed in vulva development declined over time -- instead of randomly increasing and decreasing. In addition, the team noted that the number of rings used to form the vulva consistently declined during the evolutionary process. These results demonstrate that, even where we might expect evolution to be random, it is not. These results demonstrate that, even where we might expect evolution to be random, it is not"


They expected a probabilistic outcome, and they got constraints determining outcome (i.e., a deterministic outcome). This is why the research titled "Evolution is Deterministic, Not Random"

You disagree with this ? The NSF website is publishing false information ? How is this not "cellular determinism?

science daily:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 123929.htm

nsf source:
http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=110761



Yes, I do. They are stated as constraints in the document you cited. That is why the researchers came to the surprise, and conclusion of determinism, rather than stochastic processes (probability) as the the determination for outcome. One would expect probability generally, not constraints.



I was told that deterministic evolution represented in Prometheus is "ridiculous", "absurd", "nonsense" and yet, I find research that the scientific principal of deterministic evolution that appears to show it is not "ridiculous", "absurd", "nonsense".

I am not a biologist so I am doing my best. Sorry. However, but you don't explain why the National Science Foundation and Journal of Current Biology, and the Science Daily would post the title and summary of a nonsense idea?

So, the concept of deterministic evolution is silly to you? Can you explain why ? NSF payed millions of dollars for such research.

What "childish word play"? I made it clear from the second post that Prometheus is evolutionary, and the difference is only pre-deterministic evolution (i.e., the aliens could put say "constraints" or whatever mechanism in the DNA to control the evolutionary process)? I repeated this assertion many times looking for an answer of why it is being refuted. This is what the premise of Prometheus is about - that the alien "engineers" who are known as fantastic genetic engineers could of programmed the DNA in the "goo" to direct evolution. So we get as I stated in the second post, pre-determined evolution. This is why in the movie they want to know why the aliens created and guided humanity to only destroy it later.



I am not saying this proves anything, and perhaps the science is bogus. I only cited it as refutation to the argument that deterministic evolution represented in Prometheus is "ridiculous", "absurd", "nonsense". If it is such nonsense then why do I find research claiming otherwise? Do you hold that deterministic evolution is nonsense ? I find biology websites that say the belief is contentious among researchers, yet, everyone here seems to dismiss it out of hand with no thought , and with no explanation.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V_2r2n4b5c[/youtube]

Evolution is a lie, because if it were true there would be no heaven and 72 wives waiting for me at the pearly gates and most of my life would be a waste because of believing in something not true so it has to be true. so I reject your claims,

ALSO, My GOD is the right god, all of yours are just fantasies you tell your selves and others and your children, there can be only one right god and he is MINE! so you better brush up on my god and pray to him or your all going to be losers and burn in ever lasting hell!

And lastly I couldnt have evolved, I am too perfect and there has to be a god that cares for me. and there has to be justice after death for all your crimes against me and mine! and the people I love that died are not just gone, their waiting for me, and I refuse to believe there is nothing left of me after death!

Last edited by AspergianMutantt on 01 Aug 2014, 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dxpMTFBg48[/youtube]