The West talks, whilst the Middle East burns...

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MrGrumpy
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12 Aug 2014, 4:43 pm

The US airstrikes in Northern Iraq are openly acknowledged as being ineffective in anything more than the shortest of terms.

The fires in the Middle East are getting closer and closer to the West, and like Nero, we are just fiddling.

The end is nigh....


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AspieUtah
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12 Aug 2014, 5:02 pm

"We" aren't fiddling when the U.S. government openly armed and financed al Qaeda in Libya (now known as ISIS or IS), and then, as you wrote, turned around and bombed those now-armed "enemies" in Syria and.... The U.S. and U.K. governments are staging both sides of the battles. That is hardly doing nothing when our governments are following their scripts to the letter. Remember: "Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia."

It is a game, a con and, aside from the deaths, a hoax. And, yes, the end game is coming.


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Last edited by AspieUtah on 12 Aug 2014, 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

naturalplastic
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12 Aug 2014, 5:44 pm

MrGrumpy wrote:
The US airstrikes in Northern Iraq are openly acknowledged as being ineffective in anything more than the shortest of terms.

The fires in the Middle East are getting closer and closer to the West, and like Nero, we are just fiddling.

.


You gotta better idea?



MrGrumpy
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12 Aug 2014, 6:24 pm

Yes - we either start WW3, and win, or we face an unstoppable degeneration in our ability to dictate the future of the world.

The unstoppable degeneration option is probably preferable, just so long as we accept its inevitability in time to be able to negotiate the terms of the deal.

The third option is to back ourselves into such a corner that we have no option but to unleash our nuclear so-called deterrent.

Russia's current behaviour on their Ukrainian borders shows the ineffectiveness of the NATO threat.


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YippySkippy
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12 Aug 2014, 9:12 pm

The Middle East is always burning.



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13 Aug 2014, 5:07 am

[Moved from News and Current Events to PPR]


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Stannis
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13 Aug 2014, 6:33 am

sToP bLiNdLy AcCePtInG nArRsTiVeS pUt OuT bY tHe PeNtAgOn.



AspieUtah
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13 Aug 2014, 9:02 am

Stannis wrote:
sToP bLiNdLy AcCePtInG nArRsTiVeS pUt OuT bY tHe PeNtAgOn.

I haven't believed the U.S. government since I was on the fringes of its work.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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13 Aug 2014, 9:30 am

And what is the West supposed to do? What can you do but urge people to settle things peacefully? What can you do with religious fanatics? In the US, we have freedom of religion so how can we go punish people overseas for practicing theirs? It looks hypocritical.

People always want to West to solve the world's problems. The simple fact is, the West isn't some super human force who can wave a magic wand and create a landscape of people without conflict. We have tried our hand in Iraq and Afghanistan, to see if the US can really make a difference with these ancient cultures laced with fanaticism and you see the results. Doesn't work. Yes, the West has made the effort so you cannot say we didn't try.



naturalplastic
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13 Aug 2014, 10:07 am

MrGrumpy wrote:
Yes - we either start WW3, and win, or we face an unstoppable degeneration in our ability to dictate the future of the world.

The unstoppable degeneration option is probably preferable, just so long as we accept its inevitability in time to be able to negotiate the terms of the deal.

The third option is to back ourselves into such a corner that we have no option but to unleash our nuclear so-called deterrent.

Russia's current behaviour on their Ukrainian borders shows the ineffectiveness of the NATO threat.


Lol!

I said better ideas.

Not a list of the same old bad ideas that weve already tried.



The_Face_of_Boo
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13 Aug 2014, 10:21 am

I am in fire! I am burning!

The arab leaders are just talking too.



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13 Aug 2014, 11:32 am

MrGrumpy wrote:
Yes - we either start WW3, and win, or we face an unstoppable degeneration in our ability to dictate the future of the world.

The unstoppable degeneration option is probably preferable, just so long as we accept its inevitability in time to be able to negotiate the terms of the deal.

The third option is to back ourselves into such a corner that we have no option but to unleash our nuclear so-called deterrent.

Russia's current behaviour on their Ukrainian borders shows the ineffectiveness of the NATO threat.

We already have a nuclear deterrent. It works when we don't use it. And it's ineffective against non-state actors. Of course the future includes the USA's degeneration in ability to dictate the future of anyone besides ourselves. This has to do with peak oil. Economies are based on energy, and our energy consumption will be dictated by the physical reality of a lower energy future. Most Middle Eastern countries cannot naturally support the populations that currently exist there, but for oil money and it's ability to buy food and other necessities.

I would also point out that Ukraine is not part of NATO. So Russia faces no NATO threat.



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14 Aug 2014, 4:56 pm

AspE wrote:
I would also point out that Ukraine is not part of NATO. So Russia faces no NATO threat


Mmmm - if Russia does not perceive a NATO threat, then what is stopping it from annexing all of Ukraine, rather than just the Crimea bit?

The important question is 'what will NATO and/or the EU do if Russia decides to call their bluff?'

As a result of the accelerating decline since WW2 of the US/UK's ability to win any military conflict, other forces are seizing the opportunity to try their luck. The nuclear deterrent does not seem to deter them at all...


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14 Aug 2014, 5:18 pm

MrGrumpy wrote:
AspE wrote:
I would also point out that Ukraine is not part of NATO. So Russia faces no NATO threat


Mmmm - if Russia does not perceive a NATO threat, then what is stopping it from annexing all of Ukraine, rather than just the Crimea bit?

The important question is 'what will NATO and/or the EU do if Russia decides to call their bluff?'

As a result of the accelerating decline since WW2 of the US/UK's ability to win any military conflict, other forces are seizing the opportunity to try their luck. The nuclear deterrent does not seem to deter them at all...


The nuclear deterrent is mutual. It just protects the home soil, because everyone knows no one is going to fire their nukes to protect some stretch of land that isn't theirs.

What will NATO/EU do if Russia invades? Probably not much. It would be best if everyone could agree to let Ukraine be a buffer zone between NATO and the Russian sphere of influence for the time being. The Russians feel threatened and insulted by EU/NATO meddling in Ukraine.



MrGrumpy
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14 Aug 2014, 5:49 pm

trollcatman wrote:
It would be best if everyone could agree to let Ukraine be a buffer zone between NATO and the Russian sphere of influence for the time being. The Russians feel threatened and insulted by EU/NATO meddling in Ukraine

Have you asked many Ukrainians about their preferences?


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trollcatman
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14 Aug 2014, 6:13 pm

MrGrumpy wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
It would be best if everyone could agree to let Ukraine be a buffer zone between NATO and the Russian sphere of influence for the time being. The Russians feel threatened and insulted by EU/NATO meddling in Ukraine

Have you asked many Ukrainians about their preferences?


No, but I think a war with Russia would be pretty horrible for them. In a perfect world they would be completely free to make a democratic choice to join the EU (for example), but that is not the world we live in. Besides, in their current situation (and even before the crisis) they would not qualify for EU membership, not by far. Those EU politicians promising them a quick path to EU membership were talking complete nonsense. If you look at it with a more pragmatic view, they need good relations with both the EU and Russia.
The sanctions against Russia and the countersanctions are really hurting the EU as well. The price of vegetables and fruit is dropping rapidly now that the EU has lost the Russian market. If the farmers are not compensated many will go under. This situation is hurting everyone and it isn't going anywhere.