Videos that may give some Westerns a pause....

Page 1 of 5 [ 66 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,643
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

31 Aug 2014, 2:25 pm

This started with a chat conversation with an American yesterday, we were talking about ISIS (IS) and radicals, and she was like why Arabs would worry about ISIS as "Arabs and ISIS are the same" - then she readjusted her statement to "At least the Gulf Arabs"; I replied her that ISIS is the threat #1 for the Arab identities/cultures and all the other diversity of cultures here; ISIS do not care at all about the Arab identity (or any other identity; hence why they've burned their passports),

I recall also posters lumping all Arab/Middle-Eastern countries as if they are all Saudi Arabia socially, (and even Saudi Arabia isn't equally strict in all cities, Jeddah are way less strict than Riyadh for instance - but it is still the most radical Arab country overall); I see it's unfair for the Gulf Arab states to be equated to ISIS.

Anyway this lady couldn't understand what I was saying (her mind is equating ISIS to Gulf Arabs) until showing her some videos similar to the below.

Look, I am not saying that Gulf Arab countries are liberal, tolerant or egalitarian (far from that) and the radicals of them might be backers for ISIS, but ever seen those? Wouldn't it give you a pause of rethinking for the some of you?


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRd_jqGJ4H4[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StizZ4WCn6c[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxLnN08InrU[/youtube]

There are tons of such videos, those are called "Jalsat" or "Jalsat khalijiya" (sessions of Gulf songs) and it's a very customary and common in the Gulf States, often on Thursday nights.

If ISIS were present there, every man in these rooms would beheaded, every instrument would be burned and every woman would be taken as slave.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 31 Aug 2014, 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TallyMan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 40,061

31 Aug 2014, 2:31 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
There are tons of such videos, those are called "Jalsat" or "Jalsat khalijiya" (sessions of Gulf songs) and it's a very customary and common in the Gulf States, often on Thursday nights.

If ISIS were present there, every man in these rooms would beheaded, every instrument would be burned and every woman would be taken as slave.


ISIS sound very fundamentalist. Is music completely forbidden then - don't they even have any religious music or songs?


_________________
I've left WP indefinitely.


The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,643
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

31 Aug 2014, 2:32 pm

TallyMan wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
There are tons of such videos, those are called "Jalsat" or "Jalsat khalijiya" (sessions of Gulf songs) and it's a very customary and common in the Gulf States, often on Thursday nights.

If ISIS were present there, every man in these rooms would beheaded, every instrument would be burned and every woman would be taken as slave.


ISIS sound very fundamentalist. Is music completely forbidden then - don't they even have any religious music or songs?


lol hell no, only the praying chant.



Kiprobalhato
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2014
Age: 23
Gender: Female
Posts: 29,119
Location: מתחת לעננים

31 Aug 2014, 2:36 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
There are tons of such videos, those are called "Jalsat" or "Jalsat khalijiya" (sessions of Gulf songs) and it's a very customary and common in the Gulf States, often on Thursday nights.

If ISIS were present there, every man in these rooms would beheaded, every instrument would be burned and every woman would be taken as slave.


ISIS sound very fundamentalist. Is music completely forbidden then - don't they even have any religious music or songs?


lol hell no, only the praying chant.

Does anasheed count as praying chant?


_________________
הייתי צוללת עכשיו למים
הכי, הכי עמוקים
לא לשמוע כלום
לא לדעת כלום
וזה הכל אהובי, זה הכל.


TallyMan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 40,061

31 Aug 2014, 2:38 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
There are tons of such videos, those are called "Jalsat" or "Jalsat khalijiya" (sessions of Gulf songs) and it's a very customary and common in the Gulf States, often on Thursday nights.

If ISIS were present there, every man in these rooms would beheaded, every instrument would be burned and every woman would be taken as slave.


ISIS sound very fundamentalist. Is music completely forbidden then - don't they even have any religious music or songs?


lol hell no, only the praying chant.


The thing that baffles me and probably a lot of other westerners, is why/how is ISIS able to advance so quickly. It leaves the impression that the locals aren't that averse to them taking power there. How true can that be? Or is it pure terror as in obey or die? But it can't be wholly the latter or they'd run out of fanatics to keep spreading the terror? Help me understand why/how they have progressed so fast.


_________________
I've left WP indefinitely.


The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,643
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

31 Aug 2014, 2:44 pm

TallyMan wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
There are tons of such videos, those are called "Jalsat" or "Jalsat khalijiya" (sessions of Gulf songs) and it's a very customary and common in the Gulf States, often on Thursday nights.

If ISIS were present there, every man in these rooms would beheaded, every instrument would be burned and every woman would be taken as slave.


ISIS sound very fundamentalist. Is music completely forbidden then - don't they even have any religious music or songs?


lol hell no, only the praying chant.


The thing that baffles me and probably a lot of other westerners, is why/how is ISIS able to advance so quickly. It leaves the impression that the locals aren't that averse to them taking power there. How true can that be? Or is it pure terror as in obey or die? But it can't be wholly the latter or they'd run out of fanatics to keep spreading the terror? Help me understand why/how they have progressed so fast.


They're simply the strongest militarily and wealthiest faction in Iraq and Syria - former Iraqi Baath members allied with them to fight Maliki rule but this alliance was short lived due to major ideological differences, and now they're enemies to each other.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/world ... .html?_r=0
http://english.shafaaq.com/index.php/po ... ar-on-isis

And surely any very radical local would join a such strong group.

Syrians told me that "most of ISIS' victims are actually Sunni muslims" - every one of them has a relative killed or know someone killed by ISIS, and that's logical since Sunnis are the majority in the Syrian population.



TallyMan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 40,061

31 Aug 2014, 2:53 pm

^ Thanks, I understand now. So the billion dollar question: How to stop them? Or is that even possible?


_________________
I've left WP indefinitely.


The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,643
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

31 Aug 2014, 2:57 pm

Kiprobalhato wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
There are tons of such videos, those are called "Jalsat" or "Jalsat khalijiya" (sessions of Gulf songs) and it's a very customary and common in the Gulf States, often on Thursday nights.

If ISIS were present there, every man in these rooms would beheaded, every instrument would be burned and every woman would be taken as slave.


ISIS sound very fundamentalist. Is music completely forbidden then - don't they even have any religious music or songs?


lol hell no, only the praying chant.

Does anasheed count as praying chant?


No.



simon_says
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,075

31 Aug 2014, 3:10 pm

This is a funny video where Palestinians spoof ISIS:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5nigZzgf4Y[/youtube]



The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,643
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

31 Aug 2014, 3:23 pm

^ meh, they ruined it with the conspiracy theory at the end.



0_equals_true
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Apr 2007
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,038
Location: London

31 Aug 2014, 3:40 pm

Both of you are correct they are the number 1 threat, but also their success always finding some local support too. The idea that is all outsiders really doesn't add up, there is local support and that is a big factor (it also laughable this idea that is comes from all ex-Ba'athist it come from Sunni tribes, Baathism has little to do with it in reality, baathism is a brutal yet secular movement, ISIS isa brutal but very much religiously driven movement, their relationship in reality was fleeting.)

I understand fully that is not what you stand for but you can't deny that ISIS is able to appeal to some of the Sunnis. You aren't Sunni, you are also clearly middle class, and educated, you come come country with vulnerable, but nevertheless sort of balance of power across multiple groups.

Also many Gulf states, really have let everyone down, they don't really deserve much sympathy. Even those that didn't fund them directly they did contribute to heir growth. King Abdullah of SA recently made a very patronizing speech about the threat of ISIS, considering he is a large part responsible for their growth this really beggars belief. Not so long ago, he was going on about arming various groups. He is clearly very sectarian.

I think people are really getting a be fed up of the Western this and Western that. Part of the problem is not only the sectarian issue, but the constant appeal to western power about how x group is hard done by. FFS take these group need to take some responsibility themselves. They both blame the west and expect them to mediate issues.

I'm sorry is but the gulf state really are poor allies. Maybe you can't lump all of them together but certainly SA, Qatar and perhaps most surprisingly Kuwait we know for sure they have been involved in ISIS success. People are rightly angry about this.

Considering that many lost their lives to defend Kuwait, it really is massive f**k you.



The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,643
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

31 Aug 2014, 4:26 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
Both of you are correct they are the number 1 threat, but also their success always finding some local support too. The idea that is all outsiders really doesn't add up, there is local support and that is a big factor (it also laughable this idea that is comes from all ex-Ba'athist it come from Sunni tribes, Baathism has little to do with it in reality, baathism is a brutal yet secular movement, ISIS isa brutal but very much religiously driven movement, their relationship in reality was fleeting.)

I understand fully that is not what you stand for but you can't deny that ISIS is able to appeal to some of the Sunnis. You aren't Sunni, you are also clearly middle class, and educated, you come come country with vulnerable, but nevertheless sort of balance of power across multiple groups.

Also many Gulf states, really have let everyone down, they don't really deserve much sympathy. Even those that didn't fund them directly they did contribute to heir growth. King Abdullah of SA recently made a very patronizing speech about the threat of ISIS, considering he is a large part responsible for their growth this really beggars belief. Not so long ago, he was going on about arming various groups. He is clearly very sectarian.

I think people are really getting a be fed up of the Western this and Western that. Part of the problem is not only the sectarian issue, but the constant appeal to western power about how x group is hard done by. FFS take these group need to take some responsibility themselves. They both blame the west and expect them to mediate issues.

I'm sorry is but the gulf state really are poor allies. Maybe you can't lump all of them together but certainly SA, Qatar and perhaps most surprisingly Kuwait we know for sure they have been involved in ISIS success. People are rightly angry about this.

Considering that many lost their lives to defend Kuwait, it really is massive f**k you.


Man, what you are saying is also kinda lumping-all logic as well and prejudicing.

Ok, let's consider ISIS has 10,000 fighters, or let's even make it 1,000 000 fighters!! Let make them 2 Millions! Even larger than the North korean army! How much that represents the Sunni Iraqi and Syrian population combined? They're about 34 Millions.

Fact is, any wealthy and armed to teeth force + even with very tiny to zero local support + with virtually no armed resistance capable to face it in some land = a group capable to control the whole land and very quickly as well.

They couldn't take the whole Kurdistan because the Kurdi forces are well armed, if Kurdistan fell easily to ISIS I am sure you would have came here saying "They certainly have a lot of local support in Kurdistan, this why they could eat the whole land" since most Kurds are sunnis too.

When early Israelis did advances in the Palestinian lands, who were less in numbers than Arabs, does that mean they had much support from the locals (Palestinians)? Or even when Mohamad and his caliphates conquered the middle east? And even Genghis khan? All that thanks to hordes of locals?

This is a false logic.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 02 Sep 2014, 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

0_equals_true
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Apr 2007
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,038
Location: London

31 Aug 2014, 4:44 pm

Why did the Iraqi army just abandon all their equipment in that Sunni region, without a fight????

Even with relatively small number of fighter, there was some Sunni population in that particular region that was pretty fickle, they actively invited them in in order to spite the Shia. So in other word they shot themselves in the foot in order to stick it to the government. It is also not something that hasn't happened before either with various factions. The only thing new is it ISIS this time round.



0_equals_true
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Apr 2007
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,038
Location: London

31 Aug 2014, 4:52 pm

The Kurds by virtue of being quite different and not being Arab are unlikely to support ISIS. However there has been in the past some small Kurdish Islamist group. However they haven't had much footprint, this is becuase fe Kurd woudl support them.

Kurd overall have led a fairly secular region for some time. This tell you the culture an attitude make a huge differnce.

ISIS formed from Al Qaeda in Iraq, it cannot be denied that, the was Iraqi support as well as insergents, and this was before all the funding.



The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,643
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

31 Aug 2014, 4:53 pm

0_equals_true wrote:

Even with relatively small number of fighter, there was some Sunni population in that particular region that was pretty fickle, they actively invited them in in order to spite the Shia. So in other word they shot themselves in the foot in order to stick it to the government. It is also not something that hasn't happened before either with various factions. The only thing new is it ISIS this time round.


Dirty temporary alliances for a common cause =/= joining.

Quote:
Why did the Iraqi army just abandon all their equipment in that Sunni region,


They've lost against them and fled, ISIS's army was stronger, as simple as that, many sought refugee in Erbil and other areas. Military failure and fall of morals are no evidence that the soldiers actually support ISIS; that's a conspiracy theory.

You should re-question yourself about many things in a less accusatory process of thought regarding millions of Muslim population.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 31 Aug 2014, 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,643
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

31 Aug 2014, 5:00 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
The Kurds by virtue of being quite different and not being Arab are unlikely to support ISIS. However there has been in the past some small Kurdish Islamist group. However they haven't had much footprint, this is becuase fe Kurd woudl support them.

Kurd overall have led a fairly secular region for some time. This tell you the culture an attitude make a huge differnce.

ISIS formed from Al Qaeda in Iraq, it cannot be denied that, the was Iraqi support as well as insergents, and this was before all the funding.


ISIS before the funding had barely 4000 fighters, the Islamist Kurds are a tiny group, so?