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azaam
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11 Sep 2014, 10:57 pm

As Obama pledges to help innocent Iraqi women and children the millions of dead Iraqi women and children lay in their graves as a result of the US trade embargoes and the search for the non existent weapons of mass destruction.

When the US set up protection of the Iraqi Oil while allowing the museums to be destroyed and the history of thousands of years to lay wasted at the tips of the depleted uranium bombs being sent from the sky just whose freedom were you protecting.

You created a vacumn of hate and now you speak of love and support.

You created a paradigm where anger exists from your bombs. You utterly destroyed a nation under false pre tenses and now a "Nobel Prize Peacemaker" will use more bombs to glue it back together again.

Where is the justice for the 2.5 million dead civilians in Iraq as a result of American invasion to achieve their interest?


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Narrator
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11 Sep 2014, 11:57 pm

Media?


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12 Sep 2014, 1:49 am

azaam wrote:
Where is the justice for the 2.5 million dead civilians in Iraq as a result of American invasion to achieve their interest?"

The most recent scientific estimate of the total Iraqi death toll due to the Iraq war is around 461,000 people (March 1, 2003 - June 30, 2011).

Note, however, that there is significant uncertainty about the figure. The 95 percent confidence interval for the death toll is thus between 48,000 and 751,000 deaths.

Source:
Hagopian et al. wrote:
Our household survey produced death rates that, when multiplied by the population count for each year, produced an estimate of 405,000 total deaths. Our migration adjustment would add an additional 55,805 deaths to that total. Our total excess death estimate for the wartime period, then, is 461,000, just under half a million people.

Hagopian, A., Flaxman, A. D., Takaro, T. K., Al Shatari, S. A. E., Rajaratnam, J., Becker, S., ... & Burnham, G. (2013). Mortality in Iraq associated with the 2003?2011 war and occupation: findings from a national cluster sample survey by the University Collaborative Iraq Mortality Study. PLoS medicine, 10(10), e1001533.

http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/inf ... ed.1001533

However, since (1) US forces were still present in Iraq until December 2011 (longer than the scope of the study) and (2) the deteriorated infrastructure due to the war still persists, the "final" death toll (if such an estimate can ever even be provided) is likely to be somewhat higher than the 461,000 estimate.

The above estimate is far lower than the 2.5 million made by the OP, but given the generally held belief (even in the US, according to a recent January 2014 poll from Pew Research) that the Iraq War was a failure, then one might ask what good has come from these deaths...



1024
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12 Sep 2014, 3:16 am

What does the media have to do with the whole thing?

Also, it's questionable who is responsible for the deaths. The embargo was imposed by the UN, not the US; and it was a consequence of the actions of the Iraqi government, so largely the Hussein government was responsible for the suffering of its own people.
In the war, most people died not in the invasion, but in the civil war, when various groups, instead of contesting the elections which they would've lost, launched armed campaigns. These deaths are largely the responsibility of those groups. Under Hussein there were no rebellions because he would've crushed any opposition with an iron fist; but people like you would hate the US even more had they done the same.

The US certainly committed mistakes, but that's not a reason to do nothing now. There have also been cases (Rwandan genocide for example), where non-intervention was the deadly mistake. In the Middle East many people hate the US for everything and its opposite, which can make it problematic that the US leads the intervention again though.

And of course Obama's peace prize was a premature decision of the Nobel comittee, not of Obama; it does not oblige him to anything.


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The_Walrus
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12 Sep 2014, 5:34 am

GGPViper wrote:
azaam wrote:
Where is the justice for the 2.5 million dead civilians in Iraq as a result of American invasion to achieve their interest?"

The most recent scientific estimate of the total Iraqi death toll due to the Iraq war is around 461,000 people (March 1, 2003 - June 30, 2011).

Note, however, that there is significant uncertainty about the figure. The 95 percent confidence interval for the death toll is thus between 48,000 and 751,000 deaths.

Source:
Hagopian et al. wrote:
Our household survey produced death rates that, when multiplied by the population count for each year, produced an estimate of 405,000 total deaths. Our migration adjustment would add an additional 55,805 deaths to that total. Our total excess death estimate for the wartime period, then, is 461,000, just under half a million people.

Hagopian, A., Flaxman, A. D., Takaro, T. K., Al Shatari, S. A. E., Rajaratnam, J., Becker, S., ... & Burnham, G. (2013). Mortality in Iraq associated with the 2003?2011 war and occupation: findings from a national cluster sample survey by the University Collaborative Iraq Mortality Study. PLoS medicine, 10(10), e1001533.

http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/inf ... ed.1001533

However, since (1) US forces were still present in Iraq until December 2011 (longer than the scope of the study) and (2) the deteriorated infrastructure due to the war still persists, the "final" death toll (if such an estimate can ever even be provided) is likely to be somewhat higher than the 461,000 estimate.

The above estimate is far lower than the 2.5 million made by the OP, but given the generally held belief (even in the US, according to a recent January 2014 poll from Pew Research) that the Iraq War was a failure, then one might ask what good has come from these deaths...

For what it is worth, the number of Iraqi "combatants" killed is estimated at between 34,000 and 38,000, a relative blip. I don't know if the numbers provided in the above report include the 25,000 deaths of invading forces and their allies, if so then the number of "civilian deaths" is quite a bit lower again.

I would be very surprised if a majority of those deaths were not caused by insurgents. Of course, without the invasion then those insurgencies may never have happened.



azaam
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12 Sep 2014, 9:52 am

Most people are misled by the media about attacking Iraq a second time because there is exists a threat. When NATO wants to achieve a dirty goal, they create a threat as a excuse for their wrongdoings. People are either evil or naive these day.


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