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khaoz
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15 Sep 2014, 10:22 am

I wonder if most Christian have ever even known and interacted with Atheists on a daily basis, or do they just label every human being who does some "bad" thing as an Atheist? Atheist are no different than Christians other than the fact we don't believe in your God. Being an Atheist (or Christian, or Muslim or Jew or ... Does not make a human being do "bad things". Being a human being does that.

My sister is preparing for initiation into the Fraternal Order of the Eagles this coming week, and one of their requisites is that members believe in God. As if only by being a believer in your God could a member possibly ; as below " living a good and useful life. It was designed to teach candidates for membership the highest standards of human conduct expected of us."


"The Ritual is a set of rules by which Eagles are to conduct themselves not only in the confines of the Aerie, but in life in general. It's one of the most outstanding models for living a good and useful life. It was designed to teach candidates for membership the highest standards of human conduct expected of us."

This reminds me of episodes of the Flintstones" or "Frazier"

A bunch of self absorbed, pompous, snotty, self appointed and self anointed elitists"

Idiots

(NO I have no interest in joining), because I foresee the usual suspects with their predictable, "no one is forcing you to join"



aghogday
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15 Sep 2014, 11:40 am

^^

It depends on where one lives; living in the deep south in North Florida, which is really like Alabama away from the beaches; there has been absolutely no people I have come across as identifying as atheist, other than in college, where folks from different areas of the country 'play', if you will.

It's over 80 percent republican, and democrats need not even enter into local races. For all practical intents and purposes it is a dictatorship of Christian religious ways, even though technically, religion and state still stays separate.

My ideology as a person who believes in GOD, is not really that much different than the ideologies of many folks who identify as atheist here, although I am very adverse to personally attacking anyone, no matter how ridiculous I personally believe their belief systems to be, as I know mostly they simply know not what they do, and personally attacking them for different beliefs with different intellects only makes me look weak, and truly shallow in the most important intelligence of all of social animals; emotional intelligence, as is, for basic human survival in any cooperative social group unit.

Really, that's all that sets me apart different from the ideology of Atheists here, hmm, and for the most part my poetic expressions including symbolic ones and such as that, as I support gay rights and other differences in human nature, that are seen as demon rights in my local area, and am not afraid to go toe to toe, with even the most popular preachers in my local area on that subject, here, too, where I live.

Nah, I'm not the favorite person of many religious folks in the area I live, as I seek the truth of the GOD of Nature true every now of every now of my life; not some fairy tale used to control reproductive freedoms and subjugate folks through fear for materialistic gains, as initiated by Emperor Constantine and his early Roman Catholic Cohorts around the 3rd or 4th century AD; yes, sullying what I do believe to be the basic classical pantheist and Yogi leaning beliefs of the real man Yeshua, as reported in the Gospel of Thomas, translated back in 1959 to English; yes, metaphorically raising the man from the grave in words finally in the 20 century and 21st century now, per what was reported yes, not necessarily what the real man said then.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/thomas.htm

Yes, the only thing that separates me from most Atheists here is unconditional love otherwise knows as Sacred Love or TRUE unconditional Empathy for all others.

And yes, that three letter word GOD that is not at all god to me as god is ALL IT IS to me, and yes much more powerful and all being than any fantasy of a fairy tale yet invented now, as far as I know now.

In my opinion, here in the US, at least, it is Modern Christianity that creates what seems at times almost a hatred for the metaphor of GOD, and no that is no surprise as the homosexual leaning and other different genetic traits of human beings are often not accepted by the herds of 'heard' anywhere a person goes, with or without religion.

Unfortunately, it is still social animal nature inclusive of human social animal nature to be afraid of and exclude the different among the tribe, but that too is an instinctual part of the GOD of nature I know, and there too, as a simple survival mechanism, as the different in some circumstances in nature in the wild can be lethal as well.

Cognitive effort or Sacred Love, is required to eliminate that issue, whether it is me accepting and loving folks who do not share my same intellect or potentially lower emotional intelligence or me accepting homosexuals. It's one and similar, acceptance of the diversity of humanity. This is provided by the valuable attribute of human will, not necessarily direct human social animal nature, alone.

In other words Sacred Love, is very possibly a human abstract construct too, that is not that much different than language as it stands now a complex abstract construct.

But beyond that the only thing that separates me and Atheists is a silly little three letter word, that can never chain the GOD I know of ALL IT IS, BEHIND SILLY LITTLE HUMAN constructs; yes the silly ones, not the ones that benefit society as a whole, like Sacred Unconditional Love.

But whenever I hear anyone personally attack a fundamentalist Christian here who does actually directly personally attack someone else; they in my opinion are of no higher noble purpose as human being, than the fundamentalists who say Gays are going to hell or what not. Lack of human empathy and respect for other humans is just that. And if there is contrived human evil in the world, in my opinion it is just that, not exercising empathy with cognitive control. Yes, this is something that may set humans apart from most other social animals, true.

It's true. At core of what life is, there is not much difference in effect and affect of real life and the God of nature I know per true Anti-Christ leaning sentiment per a fundamentalist Christian or a fundamentalist Atheist, showing no real cognitive empathy for their 'brothers and sisters' as yes, no matter what our illusory beliefs are we do share most of the same genetic material; how do I know, the GOD of nature tells me so, including science that yes is most definitely the scribe of GOD in my opinion.
In other words, I believe in human ethics, where harm is never the goal aka GOD; in REAL GOD CIRCLES no matter what labels are used, actions do speak louder than words, alone. And Sacred LOVE does speak loudest. Perhaps humans invented it. But the bottom line is, IT works, yes, in real life, TRUE.

And in all of human history the reality is all myths of Gods and such are used to describe the unknown of nature, that truly is part of nature true, OR to control other folks; from Apollo to Odin to some dude sitting at the right hand of nature, it is all the same, there is no escaping the GOD of nature, and WHO knows but GOD of nature, perhaps after death too.

After all, infinity is A VERY LONG time to guess that true or false, in an 'infinitesimal' point of now.

I'll go with the glass left half full. It's logic in full effect and AFFECT of having a better life, now, and not worrying about anything true, but now, 'wRite' NOW.

In my opinion metaphorically speaking, only a 'fool' WILL 'think' different.


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Last edited by aghogday on 15 Sep 2014, 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

khaoz
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15 Sep 2014, 11:58 am

and you believe Atheists are incapable of

"Yes, the only thing that separates me from most Atheists here is unconditional love otherwise knows as Sacred Love or

why? Buddhist have a sacred unconditional love, so why is their sacred love not "TRUE unconditional Empathy for all others." as yours supposedly is?

i can notice immediately from WP Christians especially, that Christians are much more likely to launch into a profanity laced assault of people who disagree with them. Is that a reflection of this TRUE unconditional love and empathy? Perhaps I have misunderstood the meaning of the word "unconditional" but I dont think so.



aghogday
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15 Sep 2014, 12:10 pm

^^

No, definitely not. I equaled both so called fundamentalists Christians and Atheists the similar who do not practice unconditional Sacred Love, regardless of what label they apply to themselves. As this site is all text, with no non-verbal language, that part is easy to quote upon request. And yes, I realize as stated above, that both camps have issues as far as this is concerned, and considering the much greater percentages of non-atheists here, per Boston University Peer reviewed study of this forum at 74%, and in the US, somewhere under 5 percent, obviously per raw numbers it is the fundamentalist Christians who will likely be MORE of THAT problem of lack of cognitive empathy wherever one goes, in general. Particularly where I live, in fundamentalist Christian 'heaven', if you will.


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15 Sep 2014, 12:41 pm

khaoz wrote:
]
My sister is preparing for initiation into the Fraternal Order of the Eagles this coming week, and one of their requisites is that members believe in God. As if only by being a believer in your God could a member possibly ; as below " living a good and useful life. It was designed to teach candidates for membership the highest standards of human conduct expected of us."


"The Ritual is a set of rules by which Eagles are to conduct themselves not only in the confines of the Aerie, but in life in general. It's one of the most outstanding models for living a good and useful life. It was designed to teach candidates for membership the highest standards of human conduct expected of us."


Are you sure she wasn't talking about World of Warcraft?



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15 Sep 2014, 12:56 pm

khaoz wrote:
I wonder if most Christian have ever even known and interacted with Atheists on a daily basis, or do they just label every human being who does some "bad" thing as an Atheist? Atheist are no different than Christians other than the fact we don't believe in your God. Being an Atheist (or Christian, or Muslim or Jew or ... Does not make a human being do "bad things". Being a human being does that.

Well... Pew recently did a study on the views of various religious groups in the US.

I cannot recall if I posted about it earlier, but here it is (n=3,217, margin of error is +/- 2.2 percent):
http://www.pewforum.org/2014/07/16/how- ... us-groups/

Anyway, the study included the following:

Image

So it would seem that people in the US (including Christians, I assume) have a more positive view of atheists when they are personally acquainted with someone who is atheist. The association holds for all religious groups, BTW, but acquaintance with an atheist improves feelings by 21 points on a 100 point scale, only surpassed by Buddhism at 22 percent. Conversely, people do not tend to warm up as much towards Mormons (only a 9 point improvement from being acquainted with a Mormon). I wonder why.


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khaoz
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15 Sep 2014, 1:55 pm

GGPViper wrote:
khaoz wrote:
I wonder if most Christian have ever even known and interacted with Atheists on a daily basis, or do they just label every human being who does some "bad" thing as an Atheist? Atheist are no different than Christians other than the fact we don't believe in your God. Being an Atheist (or Christian, or Muslim or Jew or ... Does not make a human being do "bad things". Being a human being does that.

Well... Pew recently did a study on the views of various religious groups in the US.

I cannot recall if I posted about it earlier, but here it is (n=3,217, margin of error is +/- 2.2 percent):
http://www.pewforum.org/2014/07/16/how- ... us-groups/

Anyway, the study included the following:

Image

So it would seem that people in the US (including Christians, I assume) have a more positive view of atheists when they are personally acquainted with someone who is atheist. The association holds for all religious groups, BTW, but acquaintance with an atheist improves feelings by 21 points on a 100 point scale, only surpassed by Buddhism at 22 percent. Conversely, people do not tend to warm up as much towards Mormons (only a 9 point improvement from being acquainted with a Mormon). I wonder why.
When those Mormons allow me to wear magic underwear I will begin to warm up to them



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15 Sep 2014, 4:44 pm

khaoz wrote:
I wonder if most Christian have ever even known and interacted with Atheists on a daily basis, or do they just label every human being who does some "bad" thing as an Atheist?


That's a good question. Here's another:

I wonder if most Atheists have ever even known and interacted with mainline Christians on a daily basis, or do they just label every human being who believes in a god as a scientifically illiterate, fundie moron?

...cuz it sure seems so from what I've seen around here.

:P


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sly279
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15 Sep 2014, 9:12 pm

^ that.

I know pleanty of atheists, most my friends are. I also see all of you here.

I'd put most of you in the same cat as super Christians, you are both so hateful and spiteful to anyone who thinks differently then you.

I wouldn't feel as hated if there were no atheists or super Christians. I imagine the world would be better too.

ok maybe there are some good atheists out there, but I haven't meet them.



khaoz
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16 Sep 2014, 1:53 am

sly279 wrote:
^ that.

I know pleanty of atheists, most my friends are. I also see all of you here.

I'd put most of you in the same cat as super Christians, you are both so hateful and spiteful to anyone who thinks differently then you.

I wouldn't feel as hated if there were no atheists or super Christians. I imagine the world would be better too.

ok maybe there are some good atheists out there, but I haven't meet them.


I think it says something about your own mind that you interpret my expression of nonbelief as a form of hatred. I don't hate anyone, for any reason.

What disturbs me is the continuous lie that Atheists hate Christians when all we want is for Christians to do as the 1st Amendment directs. I don't run around burning churches or destroying crosses or murdering Christians. Just I want Christians to stop perpetuating the lie that this nation was formed on Christian principles and trying to impose Christian edict into American politics and law.

"ok maybe there are some good atheists out there, but I haven't meet them"<<<^^^^

I have met good Christians, but even the good Christians I have met would not cat me as a "good Atheist" simply because I am not a believer. Even good Christians, who are nice to Atheists faces, consider us lost or confused and needing to be "saved" or fixed. Even a "good Christian" cannot conceive the possibility that an Atheist can be just as loving and caring, unconditionally, as Christians purport to be, simply because their bible tells them it is not possible. Just the words of the bible alone encourage a war on nonbelievers. Atheists do not have an organized war on Christians.



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16 Sep 2014, 3:00 am

Q1. Just a clarification on the word 'atheist.'

If it comes to believing in one of the gods specified by a religion or philosophy, then I'm an atheist - totally.
When it comes to the possibility of some sort of deity that religion hasn't 'owned,' then I'm agnostic.
For some, atheist means discounting both possibilities. For others, only the first.

So, the question is, which type of atheist are we talking about?
The ones who do not believe in the deity of any religion, or the ones who don't believe any higher being of any kind exists?

Q2. Discussions like this one seem to exclude people who were once one or the other - -
- once an atheist, now a theist
- once a theist, now an atheist
- once a theist, or an atheist, now an agnostic

For the sake of the argument, I've been on both sides of this fence. Christian (35+ years), now atheist (per religions' gods).

Q3. What about those who follow something else, such as Gaia theory?
Are they antagonistic too?
Do they receive the same sort of antagonism?

Lastly, a comment. After turning away from Christianity, people (even non-Christians) used the words, "lost his faith," as if I have lost something of value, which is akin to someone misinterpreting you. Instead, I feel like I've 'gained' something, mostly a great deal of perspective that I previously lacked.


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16 Sep 2014, 10:20 am

GoonSquad wrote:
I wonder if most Atheists have ever even known and interacted with mainline Christians on a daily basis, or do they just label every human being who believes in a god as a scientifically illiterate, fundie moron?

...cuz it sure seems so from what I've seen around here.

:P


I have been surrounded by the whole spectrum of Christianity. From the absolutely insane anti-science fundies (which I grew up surrounded by) to the devout Eastern Europe Catholic (my wife's family) to a very pleasant and inclusive non-denominational group (the majority of my neighborhood) to all the C&E Christians I've encountered everywhere. Those that I am living around are (for the most part) quite pleasant, and many of them believe that god will accept anyone into heaven who does good to his fellow man as Christ taught regardless of their "faith." But the majority I have known are not accepting of any form of atheism, it is just a matter to what degree.

From what I've seen, the most hostile posts from atheists (with a few exceptions) towards Christians are either when it is assumed that atheists cannot be moral/happy/good people, that Christianity should be a part of everything because of tradition (or something similar), or that science is fake because the Bible is literal.

I will be the first to say that I dislike the militant atheists just as much as the militant Christians. I dislike all extremism; no matter what the flavor they always leave a bitter taste in my mouth.


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sonofghandi
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16 Sep 2014, 10:24 am

sly279 wrote:
I know pleanty of atheists, most my friends are.


sly279 wrote:
ok maybe there are some good atheists out there, but I haven't meet them.


^Having some trouble with those two statements in the same post.

sly279 wrote:
I wouldn't feel as hated if there were no atheists or super Christians. I imagine the world would be better too.


^agreed. I tend to get most heated when someone tries to get upset about being attacked while tossing out underhanded attacks at the same time.

sly279 wrote:
I'd put most of you in the same cat as super Christians, you are both so hateful and spiteful to anyone who thinks differently then you.


^That goes with pretty much everything, and not just religion.


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16 Sep 2014, 11:31 am

I don't even think to ask if someone is an atheist because I don't really care one way or the other. I don't think most other people care, either.
Now, if they dwell on it and make a nuisance of being an atheist I'm likely to tease (a.k.a. torment, mock, belittle, etc.) them over it the same as I'd tease a "holley roller" for the same thing.


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16 Sep 2014, 1:27 pm

I don't need to ask who is a Christian, and wouldn't really care other than the fact the majority of Christians I know are right up in your face about it. Bibles and churches everywhere the eyeball rests, religious literature on public bulletin boards, gaudy, ostentatious jewelry and constant demands of our government to impose their ideology on me whether I like it or not. I do absolutely nothing in everyday existence to draw attention to the fact that I am not a believer.(offline). I have even had an employee at my local grocer invite me to his church, (out of the blue) I can guarantee you that if my neighbors knew my ideology they would shun me as if I were a leper. I do not treat Christians like what they have is contagious. I in no way try to impose my ideologies on others. I do not insert literature supporting my beliefs (or lack thereof) into items on the shelves of retail stores ( I experience a lot of this) and I do not disrespect the beliefs of others other than to ask that they do not impose their beliefs on me (online) as I take special care in person not to offend those whom I disagree with. Christians do not care if they are offending me with their displays. Many Christians, online especially, take pleasure in the understanding that they are being offensive and disrespectful to those who disagree with their beliefs and will even go so far as to rub salt in the wound if they make this discovery. Hardly what I would describe as Christian behavior. My Christian family members know better.