Universal Basic Income...

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Careful. I think the IRS disagrees.

http://www.irs.gov/uac/Reporting-Miscellaneous-Income

Gawd, one thing I absolutely don't miss about being in the radical left is its preponderance for pretentious word salad when a few words would have said just as much. You could have just said, "communism" and we'd have understood. Which, by the way, has repeatedly shown itself to be a backwards ideology that leads to death and destruction on almost unbelievable scales.

I'm a Mutualist. Nice strawmanning though!

Well have been reading that thing for the past half hour and cannot find anything that specifies that such payment is subject to taxation or that it is even considered as income. Now if you are 'employed' by the friend, like you work for a plumbing company(or whatever companies fix washer machines) and your friend 'hires' you through the company and you are on the 'job' when the repair takes place then it would be taxable. Or if you're self employed and repairing on the Job.

Even if it where taxable though how would the IRS find out if such a transaction took place...would you report that?

My understanding - and I Am Not A Lawyer, This Is Not Legal Advice - is that the income is considered self-employment income for tax purposes.

If the work is "under the table" without a paper trail, then the IRS can't find out unless :
(1) any party to the transaction voluntarily reports it; or
(2) a party unaffiliated with the transaction reports it; or
(3) forensic analysis of your financial activities finds discrepancies

Edit: Or (4) you discuss the transaction in a communication which is intercepted and forwarded to the IRS.

it is a static quantity, the federal reserve decides how much money is to be printed there by deciding how much its worthy. they print only so much money meaning there is only X amount of money out there.

same as under gold standard there is only X ammount of gold out there.

so if say theres only 500 dollars and jack has it all. jill makes an item and wants to sell it, the item doesn't create more wealth unless. fred prints more money.

so if theres 50 trillion us dollars in the world(just a guess.) it can and is divided amongst people. now if some guy makes a new tv, this doesn't change how many dollars are out there. he has to compete with other tv's for the same amount of dollars in existence.

so we could take the 50 trillion and divide it amongst the us population. minus that owned by other nations etc. but the rich love counting their billions and don't want to share it cause money kept in a safe never seen, never spent is better used then money spent into the economy by the poorer people. except of course when they build their billion dollar boats to sail to italy to compete with the other rich peoples billion dollar boats once a year.

such a huge waste of money mean while people starve to death.

also what do you think will happen when the welfare system is removed?
mass riots, rich dragged out into the streets and hung by mobs. stores, companies, factories burnt to the ground, house invasions of the middle class. wheres the military? ow over half of them rely on welfare to live. police, bit busy protecting their own families to protect you.

what is it like 30-40% of us citizens are on some kind of welfare. this nation will come to a halt and fall apart from the inside. you can't just cut millions of people off from food, shelter, etc and expect them to die without fighting back.

Hunter gatherers on average worked only 6 hours per day. The average person today works 8 hours. We've gone backwards.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sens ... job-exist/

Alright well have welfare abolished and see what happens....make impoverished people even more desperate and see how well the 'infastructure' holds up, pretty sure you'd find society benefits from having welfare programs to help the poor get by. Also There are lots of people on welfare that also work, there are disabled people on disability the SSI form is basically welfare that do volunteer work, help friends and family members with things like chores and contribute to the world in various other ways aside from 'having a job'. But apparently having 'a job' is the only way to contribute.

Also if you are so opposed to tax funds going to welfare what do you suggest as an alternative? seems the alternative would be this ends up looking like a 3rd world country if not worse is that what you'd like? Now abolishing corporate welfare would probably help things, but of course all the billionares and trillionares who qualify for that earned every penny through hard work....of course none of them where born in a rich family and basically handed their lot in life

Last edited by Sweetleaf on 13 Nov 2014, 3:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

But does a one time unprofessional repair actually qualify as self employment? I am sure money made through self employment is taxable but it's questionable whether that would even be considered self employment.

I agree

It's no replacement for anarchy, but I believe it's preferable to what we have right now.

The law doesn't work that way - income doesn't qualify as taxable, it is taxable by default with some special shields set up to carve out exceptions. So you have to find a way to make it not-taxable, not just assume that it is not-taxable unless the law explicitly says otherwise.

That said, the IRS has much bigger fish to fry. They basically only care about those tax cheats big enough to have a perceptible economic impact, but small enough that they don't have the clout to make their cheating legal. And while a great many small-time cheats can cause as much if not more economic impact as a medium-big one, they are far less cost-effective to pursue. So it's probably not much more dangerous to your liberty than jaywalking is.

I am sure 'its preponderance for pretentious word salad when a few words would have said just as much ' could have been said in much fewer words.

What is not the way the law works? Also at the beginning of that internet page it says in most cases all income is taxable unless specifically excluded in the document...most cases doesn't mean all cases. Also there is a good chance that money would not even count as income...find a government source that states that such money would be considered income. If your mom sends you a birthday card with 50 bucks is that also taxable? Not so sure an unprofessional giving of money unrelated to any kind of employment between friends is actually income I'd need to see a source that defines it as such.

let's just say that in actual practice there is a lot of under-the-table wiggle room. this is different from during the shrub administration when the IRS was instructed specifically to go after small fry [who can't defend themselves] and leave the big fish alone. I remember that happening in his 2nd term. in my neck of the woods it was thought to be revenge against the people who voted against him.

The document has a link to another document that spells out what is or is not taxable in exhausting detail.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p525.pdf

I started to read it but by page 5 or so my eyeballs fell right out of my head and onto the floor so I couldn't keep reading. The answers are all in there somewhere I guess. I did find out that even if no money is exchanged you still get taxed. If you barter, you get taxed for the value of whatever it is you bartered. They have a whole section on barter. I am guessing that one-off odd jobs you do would get taxed too, just based on that.

No, one's ability to earn money in a free market is not the same as one's worth as a human being. I know a pizza delivery guy whom I consider a finer human being than about any wealthy "celebrity" I can think of. I don't know how to make this clearer.



The only person I badmouthed was Justin Bieber. If you're a fan, sorry, but I value honesty.



Nobody said anything about such things ? but yes, I don't mind paying for services that offer me and my family a clear value. Why would I want to pay for anything which offers me nothing in return?



That is illogical and historically ignorant. Before a little over a century ago, nobody thought that the federal government ought to be in charge of poor relief. Not only did that society not collapse, people from all over the world risked their lives to come here and take part in the amazing growth in prosperity which economic liberty was creating.

And what are you saying, that we need to keep giving away more and more free stuff or the poor will riot and loot? That's not a logical or moral argument, that's straight-up extortion. There could be no stronger argument for ending the welfare state.



So, you think you're entitled to some of my earnings ? but you can't say why, and it's my fault.



I would rather you did, too. While you're at it, avoid my wallet, and avoid electing politicians who keep taking more and more of my money and giving it to their corporate cronies, sundry foreign dictators, and the welfare queens I see every time I go to the grocery.