Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?

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Not really but I can see how you would conclude that. Our myths do not explain things as well as they could for our modern times.

The modern Gnostic Christian view on evil matter is that matter is not evil. It is evolving perfection.

We never really believed matter was evil but unfortunately the language of that day used the term evil. Gnostic Christians could not believe matter was evil because we believe that we have a spark of God within our bodies, (matter), and the kingdom of God is both within us and around us as Jesus taught.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you and around you.

Gnostic Christians of that day were into duality of matter and non-matter. As above so below.

Above would have been seen as perfect while here below, at that time, Gnostic Christians did not see perfection. It was thus said that it was good above and evil below.

Modern Gnostic thinking has evolved somewhat and we now say that matter is evolving perfection. Many think this quote was not written seriously but to a Gnostic Christian it will be understandable as a truth.

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

This means that we all live in the best of all possible world and that is why modern Gnostic Christians call what we have around us, evolving perfection.

Be you a believer or not, the notion that things cannot be other than what they are and are, evolving perfection is irrefutable even though it is a fairly hard concept to grasp. This does not mean that we cannot improve as we each evolve further.

As I said, it can be a difficult concept so please let me know if I explained myself in an understandable way.

Regards
DL

Thanks for this.

Gnostic Christians are perpetual seeker of God.

Is that you?

Regards
DL

Seeing OP talk about gnostic equality gave me a gentle lol since Gnosticism is fundamentally elitist and based on the transmission of hidden knowledge As for me, I can't get into the rejection of the material world as evil that is core to like pretty much all the Gnostic sects, and the identification of the Demiurge with Ha-Shem some go in for makes me NOPE hard. No anti-Semitism for me, thanks... though of course, Christians are SHOCKINGLY fast to go in for the same kind of demonizing of the OT :< Probs b/c there is suuuuuch a Manichean streak in American culture. More than that, I am uncomfortable with dualism, and I MAD dig Christology ("we are members in the body of Christ" is the most powerful idea to me) and I haven't seen any really meaty Christology from Gnostic sources, though of course if you know of some I would read! Always like learning more

Once again Sam tells it like it is. Gnosticism is the perfect religion for people whose feet are not on the ground and whose heads are in the clouds.

ruveyn

Did. My personal preference is Martinist, Rosicrucian, and Golden Dawn/BOTA but that's the Hermetic direction rather than the Manichean/Cathar direction. All of this being part of the One Thing spoken of in the Emerald Tablet makes a lot more sense to me than an evil demiurge creating this - it's too multifaceted/multichromatic to really call physical existance or matter 'evil'. Suppose it's the conservative in me; guns don't kill people - people do, matter isn't fundamentally evil - it's what you do with it that counts.

So says the hot new religion aiming to make goetic demons of those that came before it.

Is anyone aware of the use of psychedelic mushrooms in religion?http://www.metahistory.org/psychonautics/Eadwine/EadwinePsalter.php

You are believing that we believe our own myths. We do not.

You also only see the old (beliefs), but ignore that as a thinking persons religion, we have evolved.

Better to as our modern views and explanations than to read the old ones.

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The modern Gnostic Christian view on evil matter is that matter is not evil. It is evolving perfection.

We never really believed matter was evil but unfortunately the language of that day used the term evil. Gnostic Christians could not believe matter was evil because we believe that we have a spark of God within our bodies, (matter), and the kingdom of God is both within us and around us as Jesus taught.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you and around you.

Gnostic Christians of that day were into duality of matter and non-matter. As above so below.

Above would have been seen as perfect while here below, at that time, Gnostic Christians did not see perfection. It was thus said that it was good above and evil below.

Modern Gnostic thinking has evolved somewhat and we now say that matter is evolving perfection. Many think this quote was not written seriously but to a Gnostic Christian it will be understandable as a truth.

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

This means that we all live in the best of all possible world and that is why modern Gnostic Christians call what we have around us, evolving perfection.

Be you a believer or not, the notion that things cannot be other than what they are and are, evolving perfection is irrefutable even though it is a fairly hard concept to grasp. This does not mean that we cannot improve as we each evolve further.

---------------------------

"("we are members in the body of Christ" is the most powerful idea to me)"

At no time have you heard your church teach this notion in the depth that Gnostic Christianity does so if what you say is true then you will call yourself a Gnostic Christian and live what your church will not teach you.

The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus, in the esoteric sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. Becoming a God is to become more fully human.

Regards
DL

Yet we acknowledge that all religions are man made and that there is only man who is fit to be our God.

If you think that is putting us in the clouds then your discernment is poor.

Regards
DL

I agree that only fools will believe in a creator God.

That is why Gnostic do not give reality to their myths and why we think that those who do are fools.

Myths are just a way to help us seek man's ideal. If we find that ideal, we set him aside, raise our bar of expectations and seek further and perpetually. As all people should.

Regards
DL

Are you aware that the same effects can and are achieved without drugs.

Sociology 101.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MYsx6WArKY

Regards
DL

I think they at least need to be emanationists over claiming creation 'Ex Nihilo' (I say this having been raised Catholic) just because you don't create energy when you turn steam into electricity. Similarly if a deity 'spoke' anything into existence they had a thought preceding it and there's nothing they can do about the results being one to one with what they had envisioned. It's fully them and not remotely separate.

I really do not know how to reply here so let me just show what I believe. It was a reply asking that I show the naturalness of my beliefs and they have little to do with our ancient myts.

Although my apotheosis showed that there is an unseen spiritual realm, that I cannot prove, Gnostic Christians set that aside and recognize that man has always created it's Gods and that is why to us, the only God fit to rule man is a man or woman. One that we collectively glorify or elevate. Our hierarch is more like the Jewish Divine Council than anything else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Council

We recognize that seeking an ideal is natural.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_complex

Unfortunately, people have forgotten that all God are myths and are foolishly adoring myths thanks to literalism instead of seeking a higher ideal the way Gnostic Christians perpetually do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ1PDxeUynA

Seek your ideal man my friends. I see some here who are stuck in gear and who have let their minds stagnate by closing them down to possibilities.

Regards
DL

Do all gnostic christians believe mostly the same things?

It seems like you reject the supernatural origin of christ but you believe he existed,
do most or all gnostic christians believe this?

If you have a good link to answer these questions it would be appreciated too.

This seems to be where i part ways with what you describe as the gnostic view of GOD as human, as it is a rather limited and seemingly arrogant view of what human can not possibly know NOW as a finite physical being as is if you do not believe in the supernatural.

To see nature for ONE as human's master overall is to see reality and truth.

To respect human as fractal of that is same.

To be all one can be, is simply common sense.

To seek it with all one's might is survival and instinctual.

To escape INNATE instinct AND INTUITION is to become functionally disabled.

OUR MODERN CULTURE DOES DO THIS TO THE HERD AT LARGE.

Instinct is provided by something much greater than human ALONE.

And that is Mother Nature TRUE per what i and millions of others know as THE ONLY ONE TRUE GOD THAT IS ALL THAT IS THAT ENCOMPASSES ALL OF TRUTH.

AND YES 'WE' CAN PROVE THIS GOD EXISTS EVEN THROUGH SCIENCE AS IS.

AND YES IT IS MUCH MORE THAN THE PURVIEW THAT WE AND OR SCIENCE SEES NOW OBVIOUSLY AS SUCH.

One could call the unknown the supernatural but there are FORCES IN NATURE THAT NOT ALL HUMANS SEE WITH EITHER EYES OR EARS OR OTHER SENSES KNOWN AND UKNOWN TO SOME.

i choose to understand THAT as also A TOTALLY NATURAL part of MOTHER NATURE TRUE.

SOME FOLKS CALL IT MAGICK AND NO, NOT THE RABBIT AND HAT MAGIC.

I LIKE THE ANALOGY OF THE USED CAR WITHOUT GUARANTEES, WARRANTEES AND FINDING ONE'S way around the special features without a previously provided manual.

So yeah, GOD is like this Used CAR per metaphor for me.

AND i for one have experienced FORCES OF THIS ONE GOD THAT OTHERS HAVE NOT EVEN COME CLOSE TO AS THEY TELL ME SO IN TRUTH.

TO PARAPHRASE A perceived WISE MAN, MARK TWAIN, REALITY IS STRANGER THAN FICTION BECAUSE FICTION HAS TO MAKE SENSE.

SO IF YOU THINK HUMANS MAKE SENSE IN ONLY A LOGICAL MANNER, you are seeing very little of the REALITY OF WHAT i personally understand as the GOD of MOTHER NATURE TRUE THAT IN TRUE AFFECT AND EFFECT OF PRACTICE IS SMALLER AND BIGGER FOR SOME as even science now most definitely shows.

Some humans are 'bigger' and 'smaller' but the ONE TRUE GOD just is AS IS FOREVERMORE NOW.

AND YES NOW ALWAYS CHANGES AS IS FOR HUMAN AND GOD AS complementary forces working together as ONE.

GOD IS A REALLY BIG THING, AND HUMAN IS A VERY SMALL FRACTAL OF THE WHOLE THING THAT IS GOD.

IN an ironic way what you are saying sounds a lot like Constantine.

And perhaps the truth is that Jesus the real man was in a way like Constantine if he really thought humans were more important to GOD than any other part of GOD.

That is GODpomorphizing Human, and makes no more logical sense to me than ANTHROpomorphizing GOD.

It's just not logical, and if you cannot see that, per this discussion that is ironic too

Considering all of this the best anthropomorphizing of GOD might be a CLOWN per what we disagreed about earlier in discussion about the importance of the FOOL.

ONE HAS TO PUT THEMSELVES IN THAT PLACE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT FOOL REALLY MEANS.

MOST PEOPLE HAVE TOO MUCH PRIDE TO DO THAT.

IT IS THE HUMBLE WHO SUCCED IN TRULY UNDERSTANDING TRUTH, AS THEY KEEP ALL THEIR EYES WIDE OPEN FOR TRUTH AND SEEK IT WITHOUT PRIDE.

The reality is we have no CLEAR PICTURE OF THIS MAN CALLED JESUS AND NEVER WILL, AS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT DESERT FOLKS WHO COULD NOT EVEN WRITE THINGS DOWN ON PAPER.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ORAL TRADITION THAT CONTINUES TO EVOLVE NOW IN WRITTEN WORDS.

Humans are fractals of GOD AND wherever humans exist fractals of truth will come too.

NO one is special everyone is special AND GOD is a special Clown too.

GOD would have to be AT LEAST IN PART as we are fractals OF GOD AS MOTHER NATURE TRUE after all IS SAID AND DONE AS IS NOW.

TO ME YOUR DESCRIPTION OF GOD overall, so far, as i continue to listen to everything you have to say, SEEMS LIKE A NICER VERSION OF AYN RAND.

AND THAT'S OKAY, TO EACH HIS OWN, IT'S PART OF THE JOURNEY, after all is said and done.

And you certainly are not harming anyone by discussing it here as is as you so choose to, and I am enjoying this discussion as I always learn most from opinions I do not fully agree with but agree with in part. :)

There are a number of Gnostic Christians but we have not decided on a uniform creed. As free thinkers, we may not be able to write one. Time will tell if we can even start churches before the tipping p[oint of belief to non-belief catches up to us at around 2050.

The Gnostic Christianity I follow sees all God's and scriptures as myths and Jesus, if he existed at all, the way Joseph Campbell does. As one of the Heroes of 1,000 faces.

For what I do and show, the belief in a real Jesus is not required and not recommended even as I use what he taught and what the churches never teach.

Gnostic Christianity is more of an Eastern type of religion that seeks enlightenment and not salvation. As Universalists, our God never condemns what he created. Mythically speaking that is. Our myths show a creator God but we do not believe in such a God. Evolution and nature is what created us and then man created the Gods.

We do believe in a spiritual realm that can be accessed.

Let me give you a few links that I use almost like a signature. Keep in mind that the only God fit to rule man is a man. Even the archetypal mythical Jesus knew this. Remember that he was a Jew and believed in a Divine Council.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02cia ... =PLCBF574D

The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized.

This first is for a bit of history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus, in the esoteric sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. Becoming a God is to become more fully human.

Regards
DL