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Pepe
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29 Jun 2015, 9:27 am

Just saw a documentary about this...
Not sure if it belongs here...
Where is the psychology section on this web site, btw?

"When we are making judgments and decisions about the world around us, we like to think that we are objective, logical, and capable of taking in and evaluating all the information that is available to us. The reality is, however, that our judgments and decisions are often riddled with errors and influenced by a wide variety of biases. "
<snip>
"One type of fundamental limitation on human thinking is known as a cognitive bias."
<snip>
"Cognitive biases are often a result of our attempt to simplify information processing. They are rules of thumb that help us make sense of the world and reach decisions with relative speed. Unfortunately, these biases sometimes trip us up, leading to poor decisions and bad judgments."

http://psychology.about.com/od/cindex/f ... e-Bias.htm

To me it seems we, who are on the spectrum, are often at the receiving end of NT cognitive bias...
How often have we found ourselves facing irrationality in response to logical thinking from our part?

One of the key terms used in the documentary was "intuition"...
Something NTs use in abundance when dealing with fast pace interpersonal interaction...

Can anyone else relate to my statements?



Grebels
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29 Jun 2015, 2:05 pm

Is there a possible similarity between this and what Hindus call Maya or illusion?



Syd
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AngelRho
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03 Jun 2018, 8:21 am

Why assume we are logical?

Sure, we tend towards a black/white, true/false perspective. The problem for us is the world “out there” is more complex than that. We can’t possibly be aware of every nuance, and in fact we may be less aware than NT’s. So what seems logical for us may not be logical at all.

Every view is biased due to personal experience. There’s no perspective that is completely shared, and facts/evidence are subject to interpretation. We end up drawing conclusions more based on our own wishful thinking than based on objective reality.

My question is: Why believe anything anyone says? I think the answer is likely based on what we each find most reliable and what consensus agrees is most reliable. You will always end up accepting conclusions based on circular reasoning, appeal to authority, or appeal to majority. You may live in denial of that, but all arguments boil down to some version of these and others.

Scientific method is fundamentally circular reason (you have to assume observation in order to prove observation, for example). Religion is probably rooted in preference bias (you can logically prove God exists, but which one?).

Thus if you really want to know what’s driving all this, you have to dive down into the personal experience of each perceiver. I always like a good story can anyway.



techstepgenr8tion
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03 Jun 2018, 9:19 am

Moldy thread but while it's back up...

No one can do anything about anyone else's cognitive bias, they can only do their best to minimize their own. The way you go about minimizing your own cognitive biases is figure out which issues are locally and globally consequential - that is where misinformed opinions are actually dangerous, which issues inflame you enough to have a strong opinion on, and get as well-versed as you can on these issues from all sides of opinion (finding the most educated offerings you can), and ultimately remain agnostic/persuadable on all of them but choose your final decision on the best evidence available.

And also figure that yes, most other people indeed won't put the effort in and you're doing this for your own good adjustment - not necessarily to win social jousting competitions which, considering the sheer power and ease that Dunning Kruger offers such opponents, it probably won't make much of a difference unless you're talking to people equally interested in figuring out what's true. It's really for the most part a matter of considering that there are things to do which are right for you and right for the culture and world you live in and if social incentive structures line up with that it's only incidental and, on the converse, it's even more important to do when the social incentive structures would actually punish you for knowing what you're talking about.


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AngelRho
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03 Jun 2018, 5:21 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Moldy thread but while it's back up...

No one can do anything about anyone else's cognitive bias, they can only do their best to minimize their own. The way you go about minimizing your own cognitive biases is figure out which issues are locally and globally consequential - that is where misinformed opinions are actually dangerous, which issues inflame you enough to have a strong opinion on, and get as well-versed as you can on these issues from all sides of opinion (finding the most educated offerings you can), and ultimately remain agnostic/persuadable on all of them but choose your final decision on the best evidence available.

And also figure that yes, most other people indeed won't put the effort in and you're doing this for your own good adjustment - not necessarily to win social jousting competitions which, considering the sheer power and ease that Dunning Kruger offers such opponents, it probably won't make much of a difference unless you're talking to people equally interested in figuring out what's true. It's really for the most part a matter of considering that there are things to do which are right for you and right for the culture and world you live in and if social incentive structures line up with that it's only incidental and, on the converse, it's even more important to do when the social incentive structures would actually punish you for knowing what you're talking about.

I could sum this up as:

What is 2+2?



techstepgenr8tion
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03 Jun 2018, 5:37 pm

AngelRho wrote:
I could sum this up as:

What is 2+2?

That points at an isolated fact though, not a method or tool set.


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fromamegaverse
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10 Jun 2018, 1:33 am

In regards to cognitive bias...we all have it. Realizing your own cognitive bias however would be difficult. The truth is truth is dependant on context. The more and more detailed something is the more likely it is specific and closer to being true.

It's just there are so many parameters to consider when searching for context to reveal truth. And because of cognitive bias, people will even deny facts they know to be true based off of it affecting their survival.

Truth is non-existent without context. For example if a study claimed without context, "cheese aids in weight loss", such a blanket statement is both false and true, making the information kinda meaningless. In reality eating a certain percentage of cheese would aid in weight loss for certain individuals. But after a larger percentage of cheese is eaten, it can cause weight gain for certain individuals. Context is key. And knowing to look at both sides of an issue is key as well. Usually the truth is somewhere in between...hidden in detailed context.

And in regards to your question about neurotypical's cognitive bias....yes, I can relate, but the fact is all types of people do this. It depends on how the truth affects a person's survival. And intuition can be very false for this reason, and we all actually have it in some form.

Some people just use the "it's my intuition, I'm right!" mentality because their either deluding themselves or have a fact that evokes feelings but lack the ability to consciously beware of said fact and therefore cannot verbally express it.

There's false intuition, like when a person assumes someone is jealous of them but other people really just don't like who they are. That's their cognitive bias deluding them.

But then there's correct intuition. Ever think someone was watching you? Only to see no one there but then moments later, when you look at the room in a different angle, you realize someone was close by and actually watching you? Your brain collected a fact, gave you a feeling but you had no way to factually express it. And the reason you couldn't express it factually, is because you didn't consciously know of said fact that your peripheral vision caught a person watching you.

We all are biased and believe our side of the story. All we can do is try to navigate the world with what we know as best as we can. And hope we come closer to the truth and that the truth does not impede on our survival or else we may become blind to it.


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Last edited by fromamegaverse on 10 Jun 2018, 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

techstepgenr8tion
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10 Jun 2018, 1:41 am

I'd add - the social world is built on a more than a little mendacity and when people act as though they don't have much regard for truth it goes a bit beyond just holding up a veneer to show other guys or girls that they're tough 'with-it' social conformists. It seems authentic enough to suggest that everything from facts to art, music, or anything else are nothing other than social tools, bad or useless social tools if they don't gain you more access or more stuff, and they tend to think people are crazy who even think theoretically that there's anything transcendent to that or that anything has value in and of itself.

I used to feel strident for thinking that way and wondered if it was just cynicism, self-pity, or something else that I needed to squash but I have to square with myself - you get punished and alienated for trying to sort things out, and I wouldn't feel comfortable taking my life as the anecdote on that but it seems to be a repeating pattern that I see in our culture and in how other people get treated for trying to do the same.

I guess I'd almost want to ask the question - how much of it is legitimate bias, how much of it is simple apathy, and how much of it is staking out positions based on how it makes one look to others. There seem to be far more biological reasons for us not to care about 'truth' and instead be focused on what gets us what out of our environment and I'd imagine that still holds high hand on the pendulum, and it may always.


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“Love takes off the masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live within. I use the word "love" here not merely in the personal sense but as a state of being, or a state of grace - not in the infantile American sense of being made happy but in the tough and universal sense of quest and daring and growth.” - James Baldwin