Is the Pope slamming Islam for what the Vatican and Christia

Page 1 of 2 [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

GnosticBishop
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Nov 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,686

13 Jan 2015, 10:00 am

Is the Pope slamming Islam for what the Vatican and Christianity used to do?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 71981.html

Compare the tactics of Islam to those of Christianity when it ushered in the Dark Ages and Inquisition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02cia ... =PLCBF574D

Are those tactics and ways not the same and does that not say that all idol worshipping religions, especially Christianity and Islam are evil?

Regards
DL



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

13 Jan 2015, 10:29 am

I have noticed something very interesting about a group of homegrown fanatical evangelical Christians that I studied for a while, due to their psyches being so alien to my own. I was curious what made them the way they were. I wondered if I could alter their thinking any.

This group, who mostly come from the same husband and wife, were abused as children, mentally and physically. They came from a fundamentally religiously extreme household.

Now they do not abuse people physically, at least not outside their own families. I have no idea what they do inside, but they appear to be non violent, for the most part, now, as far as reports from defectors. Psychologically, they are still there abusing into the generations and are very obsessive and fixated on certain topics.

They brandish insults like weapons all in the name of religion. Basically, they use religion as an excuse to verbally and emotionally abuse people. I can understand why the Pope issued that statement. People can use religion as an excuse to be abusive if they so choose, and, sadly, in the US, the constitution protects them.

And, if Jesus really was like these people, and they are the way they are because of what they see in the Bible, then I can safely say I can never be a Christian. I don't know what he was really like. I certainly hope he wasn't as obnoxiously fanatical but it does seem like someone involved in the New Testament was, because he is portrayed as a fanatic in certain passages, casting out anyone who isn't as fanatical as him. It's open to interpretation, like everything, unless you can directly ask the person responsible.



Last edited by ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo on 13 Jan 2015, 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,939
Location:      

13 Jan 2015, 10:32 am

GnosticBishop wrote:
Is the Pope slamming Islam for what the Vatican and Christianity used to do?
Does it really matter? Religion is all about hypocrisy and being judgmental, anyway.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

13 Jan 2015, 10:40 am

To be fair, it's not clear Jesus was the fanatic, just look at the lives of some of the earliest martyrs and Saints. What spurred them, I have no idea. Was it Jesus? Judging from their behavior, there was some fanaticism. No one knows for sure if Jesus was an actual fanatic, or just those writing about him. He had to have some religious drive just to get those people existing in that culture to listen, most likely. Just how much was there we can only guess since he never wrote anything down.

It does make you wonder, what is it really about? Why couldn't the man Jesus have someone pen his words? Why is it the followers know so much and were able to pen but Jesus never did? Maybe he did but the leaders deemed him heretical and destroyed them? Who knows. It is one of Christianity's great mysteries. A religious leader yet he never had someone write anything about him or for him. It does seem like something of his was destroyed after he was crucified. Maybe there is much more to this than meets the eye and the security forces of the day entered homes and burned manuscripts and belongings in an attempt to break up a cult they deemed as a threat?



Last edited by ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo on 13 Jan 2015, 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 70
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,189
Location: temperate zone

13 Jan 2015, 10:42 am

You're slamming the Pope for saying almost the opposite of what he is actually saying.

He is saying "dont slam Islam as a whole, slam extremism in any religion".


The two western responses to the recent terrorism pretty much break down that way: either saying "All is Islam is bad", or saying "just extreme Islam is bad". And the Pope is one of the latter (more restrained) type of respondents.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

13 Jan 2015, 10:45 am

In the US, we don't see moderate Christians doing more to censor or counsel the fanatical evangelicals who harangue them quite often.

And the irony here is, some of these same groups harangue the Pope yet the Catholics never respond to it. These groups can be very abusive just not physically yet the moderates remain silent. It's very hypocritical to denounce Islam yet remain silent to abuse among your own ranks.

The Pope hasn't considered, the Imams and government publicly denouncing the fanatics would simply only make them a target of the violence. It is really all it would do. And I suspect this is why the Catholic Bishops and Cardinals never respond to the Evangelicals who hurl abuse at them. They simply want it to go away and not put themselves in the path of the abuse.



GnosticBishop
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Nov 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,686

13 Jan 2015, 11:06 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I have noticed something very interesting about a group of homegrown fanatical evangelical Christians that I studied for a while, due to their psyches being so alien to my own. I was curious what made them the way they were. I wondered if I could alter their thinking any.

This group, who mostly come from the same husband and wife, were abused as children, mentally and physically. They came from a fundamentally religiously extreme household.

Now they do not abuse people physically, at least not outside their own families. I have no idea what they do inside, but they appear to be non violent, for the most part, now, as far as reports from defectors. Psychologically, they are still there abusing into the generations and are very obsessive and fixated on certain topics.

They brandish insults like weapons all in the name of religion. Basically, they use religion as an excuse to verbally and emotionally abuse people. I can understand why the Pope issued that statement. People can use religion as an excuse to be abusive if they so choose, and, sadly, in the US, the constitution protects them.

And, if Jesus really was like these people, and they are the way they are because of what they see in the Bible, then I can safely say I can never be a Christian. I don't know what he was really like. I certainly hope he wasn't as obnoxiously fanatical but it does seem like someone involved in the New Testament was, because he is portrayed as a fanatic in certain passages, casting out anyone who isn't as fanatical as him. It's open to interpretation, like everything, unless you can directly ask the person responsible.


Quite true.

I sense you would profit from listening to this link as it speaks to both how to interpret scriptures and how the non-literal ancients had a better formula than what we use today.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Regards
DL



GnosticBishop
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Nov 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,686

13 Jan 2015, 11:09 am

Fnord wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Is the Pope slamming Islam for what the Vatican and Christianity used to do?
Does it really matter? Religion is all about hypocrisy and being judgmental, anyway.


Most. Not all.

Some of the Eastern traditions I think have value.

It is the literalists who are idol worshipers that are to be avoided.

Only those who believe in a literal God will be insane or deluded enough to kill for him.

Regards
DL



GnosticBishop
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Nov 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,686

13 Jan 2015, 11:14 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
To be fair, it's not clear Jesus was the fanatic, just look at the lives of some of the earliest martyrs and Saints. What spurred them, I have no idea. Was it Jesus? Judging from their behavior, there was some fanaticism. No one knows for sure if Jesus was an actual fanatic, or just those writing about him. He had to have some religious drive just to get those people existing in that culture to listen, most likely. Just how much was there we can only guess since he never wrote anything down.

It does make you wonder, what is it really about? Why couldn't the man Jesus have someone pen his words? Why is it the followers know so much and were able to pen but Jesus never did? Maybe he did but the leaders deemed him heretical and destroyed them? Who knows. It is one of Christianity's great mysteries. A religious leader yet he never had someone write anything about him or for him. It does seem like something of his was destroyed after he was crucified. Maybe there is much more to this than meets the eye and the security forces of the day entered homes and burned manuscripts and belongings in an attempt to break up a cult they deemed as a threat?


That would have been Constantine's church and the threat he wanted to kill was free thinking. He created a literal church which was locked into only four gospels and deviation or freedom to believe as one wished was net by death at Christian hands.

We got out of the Christian Dark Age and Inquisition and to let ourselves go into a Muslim led one would be insane.

Regards
DL



GnosticBishop
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Nov 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,686

13 Jan 2015, 11:17 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
In the US, we don't see moderate Christians doing more to censor or counsel the fanatical evangelicals who harangue them quite often.

And the irony here is, some of these same groups harangue the Pope yet the Catholics never respond to it. These groups can be very abusive just not physically yet the moderates remain silent. It's very hypocritical to denounce Islam yet remain silent to abuse among your own ranks.

The Pope hasn't considered, the Imams and government publicly denouncing the fanatics would simply only make them a target of the violence. It is really all it would do. And I suspect this is why the Catholic Bishops and Cardinals never respond to the Evangelicals who hurl abuse at them. They simply want it to go away and not put themselves in the path of the abuse.


I see it more as a bunch of liars not wanting to argue with another bunch of liars as then all the rest of us would recognize all the lies coming from both camps.

Regards
DL



GnosticBishop
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Nov 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,686

13 Jan 2015, 11:20 am

naturalplastic wrote:
You're slamming the Pope for saying almost the opposite of what he is actually saying.

He is saying "dont slam Islam as a whole, slam extremism in any religion".


The two western responses to the recent terrorism pretty much break down that way: either saying "All is Islam is bad", or saying "just extreme Islam is bad". And the Pope is one of the latter (more restrained) type of respondents.


Was Christianity extremist when it ushered in the Dark Ages and Inquisition?

What makes you think they would not be again if they could gain the power?

Are what I show below extremisms?

African witches and Jesus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXriVI

Jesus Camp 1of 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac

Death to Gays.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyuKLyGUHNE

Regards
DL



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

13 Jan 2015, 11:26 am

GnosticBishop wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
To be fair, it's not clear Jesus was the fanatic, just look at the lives of some of the earliest martyrs and Saints. What spurred them, I have no idea. Was it Jesus? Judging from their behavior, there was some fanaticism. No one knows for sure if Jesus was an actual fanatic, or just those writing about him. He had to have some religious drive just to get those people existing in that culture to listen, most likely. Just how much was there we can only guess since he never wrote anything down.

It does make you wonder, what is it really about? Why couldn't the man Jesus have someone pen his words? Why is it the followers know so much and were able to pen but Jesus never did? Maybe he did but the leaders deemed him heretical and destroyed them? Who knows. It is one of Christianity's great mysteries. A religious leader yet he never had someone write anything about him or for him. It does seem like something of his was destroyed after he was crucified. Maybe there is much more to this than meets the eye and the security forces of the day entered homes and burned manuscripts and belongings in an attempt to break up a cult they deemed as a threat?


That would have been Constantine's church and the threat he wanted to kill was free thinking. He created a literal church which was locked into only four gospels and deviation or freedom to believe as one wished was net by death at Christian hands.

We got out of the Christian Dark Age and Inquisition and to let ourselves go into a Muslim led one would be insane.

Regards
DL


If the devoutly religious accepts abuse, they are in the dark ages now. That goes across the board. They might have their reason for being there, as in, they don't wish to rock the boat or make examples or make it worse, but they are pretty much behaving like they did during the dark ages. Shush and fear the fanatic.

And you haven't addressed the fact the Church never denounces the Evangelicals who are pretty much teetering on the edge of violence themselves if what is coming from them is any indication. They just throw the word God in there suddenly it legitimizes what they say.

As we all know from past experience, Catholic Church officials are last to point out wrongdoings by Christian clergy and it's only after vast amounts of public reaction and protest that they ever bother in the first place. He needs to focus on this own ranks, clean them out before looking elsewhere and telling them to do the same.



GnosticBishop
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Nov 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,686

13 Jan 2015, 11:53 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
To be fair, it's not clear Jesus was the fanatic, just look at the lives of some of the earliest martyrs and Saints. What spurred them, I have no idea. Was it Jesus? Judging from their behavior, there was some fanaticism. No one knows for sure if Jesus was an actual fanatic, or just those writing about him. He had to have some religious drive just to get those people existing in that culture to listen, most likely. Just how much was there we can only guess since he never wrote anything down.

It does make you wonder, what is it really about? Why couldn't the man Jesus have someone pen his words? Why is it the followers know so much and were able to pen but Jesus never did? Maybe he did but the leaders deemed him heretical and destroyed them? Who knows. It is one of Christianity's great mysteries. A religious leader yet he never had someone write anything about him or for him. It does seem like something of his was destroyed after he was crucified. Maybe there is much more to this than meets the eye and the security forces of the day entered homes and burned manuscripts and belongings in an attempt to break up a cult they deemed as a threat?


That would have been Constantine's church and the threat he wanted to kill was free thinking. He created a literal church which was locked into only four gospels and deviation or freedom to believe as one wished was net by death at Christian hands.

We got out of the Christian Dark Age and Inquisition and to let ourselves go into a Muslim led one would be insane.

Regards
DL


If the devoutly religious accepts abuse, they are in the dark ages now. That goes across the board. They might have their reason for being there, as in, they don't wish to rock the boat or make examples or make it worse, but they are pretty much behaving like they did during the dark ages. Shush and fear the fanatic.

And you haven't addressed the fact the Church never denounces the Evangelicals who are pretty much teetering on the edge of violence themselves if what is coming from them is any indication. They just throw the word God in there suddenly it legitimizes what they say.

As we all know from past experience, Catholic Church officials are last to point out wrongdoings by Christian clergy and it's only after vast amounts of public reaction and protest that they ever bother in the first place. He needs to focus on this own ranks, clean them out before looking elsewhere and telling them to do the same.


The Vatican is first and foremost a business.

A business will not change it's way of doing things if the money continues to come in.

If Christians are still putting cash in the baskets when they know that they are helping to pay air fare to move pedophiles around, the church will not change.

That says that it is the sheep we must blame and not the shepherd.

Regards
DL



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

13 Jan 2015, 12:03 pm

There are millions of religious fanatics out there who only want to force their way on absolutely everyone, they want to use government as their vessel. What can you do about it?



GnosticBishop
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Nov 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,686

13 Jan 2015, 12:24 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
There are millions of religious fanatics out there who only want to force their way on absolutely everyone, they want to use government as their vessel. What can you do about it?


All I can do is make the type of noise I am doing.

Fire has to be fought with fire and the only thing most of us can do is support efforts against Jihadists in particular and the religions that breed these guys in general.

Note that Jihadist numbers are being bolstered by Islamic religious fanatics and the numbers against them must also be bolstered by those who fight them as well. The unity of the religious Islamic fanatics must be matched by the unity of those who would oppose them.

Regards
DL



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

13 Jan 2015, 12:29 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
There are millions of religious fanatics out there who only want to force their way on absolutely everyone, they want to use government as their vessel. What can you do about it?


All I can do is make the type of noise I am doing.

Fire has to be fought with fire and the only thing most of us can do is support efforts against Jihadists in particular and the religions that breed these guys in general.

Note that Jihadist numbers are being bolstered by Islamic religious fanatics and the numbers against them must also be bolstered by those who fight them as well. The unity of the religious Islamic fanatics must be matched by the unity of those who would oppose them.

Regards
DL



I believe fire has to be fought with water or some kind of flame retardant or it should be deprived of whatever is fueling it.