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K_Kelly
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18 Jan 2015, 12:36 pm

I want to know if there are any Swedes here who can clear it up for me. Now, why is it that the country with some of the most beautiful women (or men), seems to otherwise suck as far as what I've read:

-It's a universal welfare state (HUGE generalization I must admit)
-Excess liberalism/progressiveness
-Ethnic Swedes are quickly disappearing
-Women dying their hair for fear of rape
-It's illegal for parents to spank their kid
-Men can't be kindergarten teachers

And a little more to that. Sorry if I sounded slightly biased.

I hope that this post didn't offend anyone.



The_Walrus
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18 Jan 2015, 3:32 pm

K_Kelly wrote:
I want to know if there are any Swedes here who can clear it up for me. Now, why is it that the country with some of the most beautiful women (or men), seems to otherwise suck as far as what I've read:

-It's a universal welfare state (HUGE generalization I must admit)
-Excess liberalism/progressiveness
-Ethnic Swedes are quickly disappearing
-Women dying their hair for fear of rape
-It's illegal for parents to spank their kid
-Men can't be kindergarten teachers

"Excess liberalism/progressiveness" is a tricky one to nail down. Could you clarify at all? Is there a specific policy you dislike?

Ethnic Swedes compromise a huge majority of the population - 84%. Another 3% are Finnish and 7% from elsewhere in Europe, largely Norway and Denmark. There is little chance of that changing.

The only references I could find to women dying their hair to avoid being raped were on far-right hate sites like Stormfront. Reliable sources didn't seem to report it. Perhaps it is more widely reported in Sweden.

Males can be pre-school teachers, as far as I can tell. There's no mention of them being banned, as far as I can see. I would be interested in any citation for that claim.

The large welfare state and the ban on child abuse are both good things, and I must admit to being confused that you would think otherwise.



0_equals_true
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18 Jan 2015, 5:20 pm

Why does [insert strawman / false impression] suck?

Here is a mind bender for you. You realise the word "liberal" don't even carry the same meaning in Europe, and for much of it history even in the US, it had nothing to do with its current meaning. Look up 19th century European liberalism, you might learn about a few swedes. Also look up the history of Conservatism, then you will realise that modern conservative polities have their origin in liberal policies.

The cold war greatly stupied politics in the US and the Soviet block. The kind of simplistic black and white thinking was the narrative for decades, and was drilled into the mainstream. It is only really since the 80s that thing started to improve, but it is still very much a meme tha tis hard to shake off.

The US hasn't privatised its water supply like the UK, or Argentina. So when ever you take a shower you are washing in communist water. :lol: Also you have some very wasteful government departments, not least the defense department (I'm not talking about capability spending but general wastage).

I think the point is to see what you can learn from others rather than assuming you have all the answers.



thomas81
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18 Jan 2015, 5:55 pm

I am considering migrating to Sweden BECAUSE of its progressiveness.

I don't know about you but free university courses sounds pretty good to me.


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tomato
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18 Jan 2015, 5:57 pm

I'm Swedish and live in Sweden. But being autistic or psychotic or whatever it is I am mostly inside my cave. I think that your experience will vary depending on where in Sweden you go, and also what kind of person you are, such as class, meaning how rich you are, how much contacts you have etc. I would say depending on factors such as those it could be very different, which I guess is the case in any country. To be specific about Sweden. If you live in most of the suburbs of the three major cities you'll see a lot of somalis and arabs, among other immigrants. At my work I'm the only ethnic Swede, and for a menial job in the suburbs of one of the three major cities that's not uncommon, although it's not always the case. In the suburb that I live in slightly over 70% are of foreign background meaning either born abroad or both parents are born abroad. Other than that yeah sorry to disappoint but I've stayed in my cave and haven't cared much about the world lately. But if you want to know some mundane fact about grocery stores or whatnot ask away. I think if you want to get a different perspective than the mainstream one on the political climate in Sweden one place of interest might be this:

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/sweden.php

Also check the main page http://www.redicecreations.com in the article section. Some of the podcast episodes you have to subscribe to listen to, but the articles are free to read and he usually has articles related to Sweden regularly. In that list of podcast episodes about Sweden I found these two to be especially enlightening:

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2012/06/RIR-120617.php

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2013/10/RIR-131021.php

This one is also good. It's about Finland but I think a lot of what they say probably wouldn't be very different for Sweden:

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2013/08/RIR-130814.php

I think all of those episodes are two hours, and you'll have to pay for a subscription to listen to the second hour. But I think you can listen to the first hour for free.

If you want to get a feel of being Swedish and you use PC here's a Swedish man simulator:

http://cactusquid.com/games/norrland.zip



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18 Jan 2015, 9:45 pm

Muslim immigrants failing to integrate into society?

In other words, nothing new.


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18 Jan 2015, 10:06 pm

thomas81 wrote:
I am considering migrating to Sweden BECAUSE of its progressiveness.

I don't know about you but free university courses sounds pretty good to me.

If I were younger, I wouldn't mind living there for a while. Or perhaps Denmark.

Google: Oprah happiest country in the world
Then watch the videos on it. Denmark is economically similar to Sweden, from what I hear. So, if you're amongst the happier people, why would the system matter?


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trollcatman
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19 Jan 2015, 9:37 am

0_equals_true wrote:
Why does [insert strawman / false impression] suck?

Here is a mind bender for you. You realise the word "liberal" don't even carry the same meaning in Europe, and for much of it history even in the US, it had nothing to do with its current meaning. Look up 19th century European liberalism, you might learn about a few swedes. Also look up the history of Conservatism, then you will realise that modern conservative polities have their origin in liberal policies.

The cold war greatly stupied politics in the US and the Soviet block. The kind of simplistic black and white thinking was the narrative for decades, and was drilled into the mainstream. It is only really since the 80s that thing started to improve, but it is still very much a meme tha tis hard to shake off.

The US hasn't privatised its water supply like the UK, or Argentina. So when ever you take a shower you are washing in communist water. :lol: Also you have some very wasteful government departments, not least the defense department (I'm not talking about capability spending but general wastage).

I think the point is to see what you can learn from others rather than assuming you have all the answers.


I also heard that in the US the mail delivery people are from the gov too. People over there are now way more commie than the Russians ever were.



0_equals_true
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19 Jan 2015, 3:29 pm

That's right we have privatised the Royal Mail. Bloody commies at the United States Postal Service. :lol:



0_equals_true
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19 Jan 2015, 3:30 pm

They even have volunteer fire serivce. What nanby pamby socialism.



Last edited by 0_equals_true on 19 Jan 2015, 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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19 Jan 2015, 3:35 pm

As far as being the most beautiful, I don't think they are, personally. They are okay, but not outright gorgeous in my opinion. As far as being progressive, what's so bad about that? Let's all be happy and help each other out.
What a horrible way to be (sarcasm.)
I would rather live some place where there isn't much suffering. I'm funny like that.



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19 Jan 2015, 3:57 pm

thomas81 wrote:
I am considering migrating to Sweden BECAUSE of its progressiveness.


Have you researched whether or not they will even have you?


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trollcatman
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19 Jan 2015, 4:09 pm

Mort wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
I am considering migrating to Sweden BECAUSE of its progressiveness.


Have you researched whether or not they will even have you?


Since he probably has citizenship in an EU country (UK), it shouldn't be too difficult. Generally EU citizens have the right to live and work in other EU countries.



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19 Jan 2015, 4:14 pm

There are conspiracy theories floating around where they say that those "happiest countries" lists are total bull, and being promoted by such people as Oprah for various political reasons, such as making it easier to push certain political reforms. I don't know if anyone listened to any of the audio I linked to. I recommend it.

I can say one thing about Sweden. Well I could probably say many things if I just was triggered. One thing I have thought about is this. I'm not sure how this compares to other countries. But I live in Stockholm and there are many indoor shopping malls, presumably because of the cold winters. The conformity of these is very striking. If you've seen one mall in Stockholm you've pretty much seen them all. Sure there is the old town and other parts of the city but especially the suburbs are extremely monotonous. You can just smell the crony capitalism and how hollow everything is.



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19 Jan 2015, 9:27 pm

tomato wrote:
If you've seen one mall in Stockholm you've pretty much seen them all.

That's probably true of most malls. I know it is here in Oz, in the US, and even in Dubai.


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