What if all species evolved to only eat plants?

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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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18 Jan 2015, 1:43 pm

Is this idea good or bad?



Janissy
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18 Jan 2015, 3:39 pm

I don't think good/bad really come into it. If the life on earth evolved that way, then that is how it would be.

Perhaps you are asking "how would it be different?"

For one thing, plant life would evolve even more defenses since it would be the only prey. There would be an increased ratio of spiky, barbed and toxic plants.

For another thing, there would be somewhat less intelligence. What we call intelligence seems to have evolved to allow the much more mentally difficult work of catching prey. Sneaking up on an animal takes more cognitive skills than standing in a field chewing the grass. Although I have seen some realy ingenious squirrels so it's not an ironclad argument. Are lions smarter than zebras? It looks that way but I could be wrong. Intelligence in this alternate reality might evolve to allow animals to remove spikes from plants and deactivate toxins.



guzzle
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18 Jan 2015, 4:18 pm

Janissy wrote:
For one thing, plant life would evolve even more defenses since it would be the only prey. There would be an increased ratio of spiky, barbed and toxic plants.
For another thing, there would be somewhat less intelligence. What we call intelligence seems to have evolved to allow the much more mentally difficult work of catching prey. Sneaking up on an animal takes more cognitive skills than standing in a field chewing the grass.


Some plants it is known of they DO communicate between them.
Quote:
Acacia trees produce tannin to defend themselves when they are grazed upon by animals. The airborne scent of the tannin is picked up by other acacia trees, which then start to produce tannin themselves as a protection from the nearby animals. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormonal_sentience



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0_equals_true
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18 Jan 2015, 4:59 pm

Giving that life is dependent on micrograms to live and metabolize, I wonder what kind of life there would be, we wouldn't exist.



Orangez
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18 Jan 2015, 6:14 pm

Why do people only assume that animals are alive? Plants are living things too so to eat is to kill. Hence, one cannot run from that fact we are all killers.


Back to the main question. I believe without prey and predator relationship the ecosystem would be pretty unstable since there would be nothing that could control population of the animals.



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18 Jan 2015, 8:22 pm

Orangez wrote:
Back to the main question. I believe without prey and predator relationship the ecosystem would be pretty unstable since there would be nothing that could control population of the animals.

We could still have parasitoids. Alternatively, I think plants would have evolved more complex defences, as Janissy suggests, or other factors would become limiting (such as water availability or shelter).



naturalplastic
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18 Jan 2015, 9:24 pm

Let's complain to management (God), and have him get rid of the carnivores (including ourselves)! :D

ALL animals (humans, non humans, carnivores, and herbivores) are excess baggage.

All ya need are (a)plants (to produce biomass), and (b) fungi (to break down and recycle biomass). Animals arent even needed. Why the creator even bothers with ANY kind of animals is a puzzle.

However things get more boring when you eliminate a strata from the ecosystem ( a link in the food chain).

On land you have plants, which getting eaten by herbivors, which in turn get eaten by predators, which in turn get eaten big bigger predators, and so on, up to about four levels.



If you get rid of -say-herbivores then it (counter to what you might expect) causes a decrease in the variety of plants.

If plants no longer have to defend against animals they only have to compete with other plants. This results is a few plant species crowding out and snuffing out the rest of the plants- resulting in a boring near monoculture of a few species. The added selective force of predators insures a great variety of plants. Ditto for herbivors- taking away the animals that prey on them and few herbivores win out and you (oddly enough in the long run) you have less variety of plant eating animal species surviving in the ecosystem. So each layer you add to the ecosystem causes diversity in the lower levels.

Herbivores cause variety in plants, and carnivores cause variety in other animals.

But the largest group of animal species are niether herbivors, nor "predators" (or not 'predators' in the usual sense), but are another group: parasites. Creatures the live on or inside larger animals. There are more species of parasites than there are species of free living creatures.

If you want the creator to change his crazy set up- petition him to get rid of parasites first-before you worry about the existence of predators.



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18 Jan 2015, 9:58 pm

While we're at it, I want to start a petition for 30 hour days. 24 hours just isn't enough.


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18 Jan 2015, 11:16 pm

Then they'd eat plants.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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19 Jan 2015, 4:29 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Let's complain to management (God), and have him get rid of the carnivores (including ourselves)! :D

ALL animals (humans, non humans, carnivores, and herbivores) are excess baggage.

All ya need are (a)plants (to produce biomass), and (b) fungi (to break down and recycle biomass). Animals arent even needed. Why the creator even bothers with ANY kind of animals is a puzzle.

However things get more boring when you eliminate a strata from the ecosystem ( a link in the food chain).

On land you have plants, which getting eaten by herbivors, which in turn get eaten by predators, which in turn get eaten big bigger predators, and so on, up to about four levels.



If you get rid of -say-herbivores then it (counter to what you might expect) causes a decrease in the variety of plants.

If plants no longer have to defend against animals they only have to compete with other plants. This results is a few plant species crowding out and snuffing out the rest of the plants- resulting in a boring near monoculture of a few species. The added selective force of predators insures a great variety of plants. Ditto for herbivors- taking away the animals that prey on them and few herbivores win out and you (oddly enough in the long run) you have less variety of plant eating animal species surviving in the ecosystem. So each layer you add to the ecosystem causes diversity in the lower levels.

Herbivores cause variety in plants, and carnivores cause variety in other animals.

But the largest group of animal species are niether herbivors, nor "predators" (or not 'predators' in the usual sense), but are another group: parasites. Creatures the live on or inside larger animals. There are more species of parasites than there are species of free living creatures.

If you want the creator to change his crazy set up- petition him to get rid of parasites first-before you worry about the existence of predators.


Just thinking about life is so...weird. What I don't understand is, why is it...carnivores...they simply catch whatever they need to sustain themselves and they ingest it and they get their energy fix so they can get on with their day, or night, whichever it is when they catch their meal. No one in their species approaches them and says, "how dare you eat that animal! Come over here and eat this leaf with some seeds instead." Members of their own species don't hassle them about getting a meal, you know? It doesn't even seem to occur to them to do this. It's an unspoken, fundamental understanding they all have, all but the human. You eat or you die.

I just don't understand why humans like to hassle each other about basic needs so much. Okay, eating is ugly and it's unethical but dying of malnutrition seems even worse than eating to sustain and we can eat meat of vegetables but every time I turn around, someone is pushing the vegetables and trying to convince the world meat is evil, unhealthy or both. Why can't we just let it go and accept that it's the circle of life? Why do humans have so many issues?

My hypothesis is our collective psyches became damaged when we lost our fur gene long ago..



Janissy
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19 Jan 2015, 4:34 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Just thinking about life is so...weird. What I don't understand is, why is it...carnivores...they simply catch whatever they need to sustain themselves and they ingest it and they get their energy fix so they can get on with their day, or night, whichever it is when they catch their meal. No one in their species approaches them and says, "how dare you eat that animal! Come over here and eat this leaf with some seeds instead." Members of their own species don't hassle them about getting a meal, you know? It doesn't even seem to occur to them to do this. It's an unspoken, fundamental understanding they all have, all but the human. You eat or you die.

I just don't understand why humans like to hassle each other about basic needs so much. Okay, eating is ugly and it's unethical but dying of malnutrition seems even worse than eating to sustain and we can eat meat of vegetables but every time I turn around, someone is pushing the vegetables and trying to convince the world meat is evil, unhealthy or both. Why can't we just let it go and accept that it's the circle of life? Why do humans have so many issues?

My hypothesis is our collective psyches became damaged when we lost our fur gene long ago..


We have food pretty entwined with culture. I don't know if it's even possible for us to disentangle them. Other animals have no such encumbrance. But then they are furry. :wink:



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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19 Jan 2015, 4:42 pm

And I have also considered discomfort in the psyche and how it manifests in our day to day lives. Humans seems to have spent most of their species-time evolving in warm environments, likely closer to the equator, then they began exploring and branching out into colder climates which is uncomfortable on some level, and unnatural to any species that spends generations in a warm, temperate climate.

It seems the further north you go, the more people have these issues with psychological maladies. The closer you are to the equator, the less likely you are to find an interest in psychology and examining our lives. They live closer to their traditions, don't have as many hang ups, have no desire to change. It's like they are comfortable in their environment so their psyches are always at peace and there's no manifestation of discomfort. Get what I'm saying? They are happy with the same life those before them led 500 years back.

It's been noticed humans are one species that's incredibly adaptable but it seems more like we are simply uncomfortable.



seaturtleisland
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21 Jan 2015, 2:25 am

Then we'd have plants eating other plants. Wouldn't that be weird?



BlueYellowBrownGreen
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21 Jan 2015, 2:29 am

I would prefer it but there would have to be some natural way to keep the population in check that nature would have to provide; in the Adam and Eve story, everyone is a vegetarian-Adam, Eve, and all the animals. The lion laid down with the lamb. That would be a cool place to live!



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21 Jan 2015, 2:32 am

Also, that is an excellent point about plants being alive too.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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21 Jan 2015, 3:19 am

seaturtleisland wrote:
Then we'd have plants eating other plants. Wouldn't that be weird?

In a round about way they do eat other plants. Plants shed their leaves or die and they enrich the soil so other plants can utilize the proper nutrients to grow. It's a constant battle for energy.