Islamic Extremism

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With the apparent acts of terrorism by Islamic extremists that the West are unable to prevent perhaps we need to better define the problem before any attempt can be made to resolve it. In my opinion the problem isn't between Islam and the West, it's between Islam and the 21st Century.

Unlike Christianity and other religions Islam hasn't evolved over time, it is still stuck in the 6th and 7th centuries when the Koran was collated. Today it still condones stoning of women for adultery even if raped. It still condones chopping off hands for theft, etc. Christianity has long since moved on from the list in Leviticus relating to slavery, stoning and eating shellfish.

The leaders of Islam cannot just wring their hands whilst stating extremism has nothing to do with them. If their religion fails to evolve then the problem will just get worse, because the world cannot revert to Islam's 7th century view of the world.

There will always be those in society who feel alienated by a lack of employment or other of societies benefits, but having them revert to a 7th century religion of rape and pillage whenever, is not something that will be easily accepted. The religion itself has to change, to evolve to a form more in tune with humanities ethical and moral standards that are expected in the 21st century.

The religion HAS evolved, and in some places like Malaysia it's very much on a 21st century level. Just like any religion than are various sects of Islam. With Islam there are two main branches, Shiite and Sunni, and there is no central leader of Sunni, only local imans, and some are extremely conservative, while others are much more liberal. So yes, many of the leaders can say it has nothing to do with them because it in fact has nothing to do with them, while others cannot. The problem isn't Islam itself (which was extremely progressive in the 7th century), it's autocracy in many Islamic nations. I'm studying Islamic Humanities right now, so I'll have more to say later on, so far we've only talked about Jahiliyya, the world before Islam.

The religion has evolved, but in the wrong direction. In the Middle Ages, the Middle-east was likely the most enlightened and prosperous part of the world, certainly compared to Europe. Now the Middle-east has turned into a s**thole, what happened? If anyone looked at the world in the year 1000 or somewhere around that, they would have bet all their money on the Middle-east and predicted Europe to be inhabited by barbarians forever.

In Uganda, Christians - encouraged by Americans, it must be said - are executing homosexuals.

Are Muslims doing that in Britain or France or Germany...? No. Are they cutting off hands or stoning adulterers? No.

The problem isn't religious, it is cultural. Religions are part of the cultures, of course, but countries where liberal ideals are yet to become mainstream values are going to keep suffering until they do, regardless of whether the religion stays or goes.

Too many religious fanatics and I have talked to some in our own country who identify as Christians so I completely understand what it is like talking to them. I have not found a way through and if the Islamic ones are anything like the ones here, it's just psychologically impossible to reach people who are that indoctrinated. Until you talk to someone like that, you have no idea what you are dealing with. It would take some kind of intense psychological experience or chemical change in their brains to change them. Talking to them absolutely has no impact at all.

We read about people in cults being caught and deprogrammed by family members...well...they aren't deprogramming for nothing.

Culture certainly is part of the problem. It is, at the least, profoundly unfortunate that the oil business has put extraordinary economic power in the hands of people who think the 11th century was far too modern and licentious.

But the other problem is the deification of written material. The koran and the hadith are full of deeply problematic material at odds with a modern sensibility and incompatible with the ideas of human rights that underpin modern civilization.

The death penalty for apostasy, for example, is really totally at odds with the idea of rights or liberty.

This is also a problem for christians and jews--how can a modern person love the god of genocide who lead Joshua on campaigns of ethnic cleansing through the promised land? The books themselves are a problem.

So the general consensus is that "that there are no ways to stop/prevent radicalised moslems from a) becoming radicalised in the first place and b) from perpetuating terrorist style attacks in major Western cities.

It's all very well Pollies talking about the young feeling alienated from society which I believe applies irrespective of religious background, and I am very much against "reverse discrimination" ie. providing younger moslems with increased opportunities over and above those available to non-moslems. So should we just learn to accept terrorist style attacks as a matter of daily fact?

My gut feel says that, with the increasing divide between the haves and have-nots occuring, social unrest will follow. Right wing governments that have a significant bias towards the wealthy seem to have little understanding as to the long-term effects of their decisions. I believe that rioting, looting and terrorism will be daily aspects of modern life in the decades to come, leading to an eventual breakdown in civilised society as we now know it.

Alison (who will be long gone by then)

Egh, I had a big long post typed, but the stupid site deleted it. Basically, the problem isn't the Islam hasn't evolved, it's actually the opposite, the extremists are part of a relatively new sect called Wahabi which claims to restore Islam to a truer version, but is actually more extreme than Islam ever historically was, and the reason for the current problems is political in nature as despite being a small minority, they control Arabia.