Black Hole denialism

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The denial of the existence of black holes seems to be all the rage these days and has been so for the last 10 years. Many of these deniers are Electric Universe acolytes but there are plenty of other plebes who doubt their existence. A project is already underway photograph the "black hole shadow" of Sagittarius A* in the galactic center. This will be the very first image from the exterior of such an object! It's part of something called the event horizon telescope project which is dedicated to the study and photography of black hole event horizons. Recent scientific scrutiny of Sagittarius A* using VLBI has now confirmed that it has an event horizon which is the telltale feature of a black hole. To this date, AFAIK it is the only such object that now has been confirmed with observational data to be an actual black hole and not just a black hole candidate. So why are people still arguing against black hole existence? Like the attempt by Dr Laura Mersini-Houghton last year to produce a mathematical proof that black hole formation is impossible(her argument has been successfully rebutted) or Stephen Hawking being misquoted to say that there are no black holes?

Is there a bias among people against black hole existence? Do people think that these objects are eeevil and possibly demonic? Or at least frightening........Jono your input is requested.

Black holes are just a big wrench in a lot of physics models of the universe. Thus, the easiest away to get around this is to deny their existence.

It seems like a fairly straight forward proposition:

-light can bend via a sufficiently large mass; you can see that
-what if a mass was big enough to stop light?
-do math. Find that it's possible
-find out what can make said mass; stars are good candidates when experiencing gravitational collapse
-they're likely to exist

Then you have indirect observations in the universe of things that behave like black holes....

Super Gravity, matter compressed beyond reason, ten thousand tons per matchbox, plus denial that gravity can also slow light, causing the Red Shift, we see. We know that super dense matter explodes. Super Gravity would have to be beyond possible to contain such an atomic explosion.

A more reasonable view, we are looking down the drain where excess matter and energy are transferred to the replicators.

Our view of the Universe is the inside of a Matter and Energy Cell.

We are like the Bacteria inside an atomic reactor.

What we do know is every fart and web post is heading for the drain.

Do black holes violate theology in some way?

Fundies/YECs seem to dislike black holes for some reason, but I am not clear as to why they dislike them.

My pupil is a black hole

It has much to do with the term "Stellar Evolution". A black hole is the final stage in evolution of a massive star. Then there is also the idea that anything that falls into a black hole is permanently lost, body and soul.

Then there is this anonymous posting (corrected for errors in grammar, punctuation, and spelling):

Obviously, this person has no knowledge or understanding of the Big Bang Theory, of Stephen Hawking's teachings, or of modern medical science. He even makes up his own 'gospel' in the first paragraph.

Typical Fundie ...

I don't really see the issue. The problem with labeling it all denial-ism, is different ideas of black holes exist. Even Hawkings has revised his work.

It is natural and good that ideas are challenged in science. I see this as completely different than those that deny science becuase it doesn't fit a belief system not grounded in science.

Maybe it doesn't fit within the timeframe of young earth people? I guess it takes longer than the 6-10k years for some supermassive black hole and the galaxies around it to form, so then the cognitive dissonance overwhelmes them.

Black holes are the predicted end point in the lives of certain massive stars according to the modern theory of stellar evolution.

Therefore finding an actual black hole would seem to confirm that theory.

But an evolution-denier could just claim that God could have just made black holes as is. Furnished the cosmos with a few ready made black holes when he constructed the universe as-is 6 thousand years ago.

The renowned scientist Eric J. Lerner says Einstein said there are no black holes:

Biological evolution is not the same as evolution of stars. In fact I'm not even sure 'evolution' is the right term there. More like life cycle.

Who cares what evolution deniers say?

A) "Evolution" simply means "gradual change over time" (as opposed instaneous creation). Stellar evolution is not the same thing as biological evolution, but stellar evolution takes place over an even longer stretch of time than the 3 billion some years that life has been evolving on earth. So denying stellar evolution would seem to be a necessity if one were to deny biological evolution. If the universe is only six thousand years old then how could stars already have evolved over billions of years?

B) I was responding to Fnord's response to what I said when I asked "why do Fundies seem to hate black holes". He said that black holes imply the reality of stellar evolution. I was saying that Fundies could fudge it by saying that God just made a few ready black holes on the first six days of creation (maybe God squeezed a few of the meatballs too hard).

Agreed. However, fundies are as prone to equivocating stellar evolution with evolution of species as they are to equivocating thermal entropy with their own 'theory' of entropy of DNA information (which they use to argue that life can not evolve into more complex forms).Aside from the evolution deniers themselves? Members of Congress (both House of Representatives and Congress), members of the Supreme Court, members of the Administrative Branch (President, Vice-President, et cetera), teachers, school board members, parents, fundamentalists, religionists, and most imporatantly: voters.

Believe it or not, the people who turn ideas into laws are among those who care most about what is said by Evolution Deniers, Anti-Vaxxers, Young-Earth Creationists, and those who would restrict the rights of women and minorities.

Denying that what is being said by ignorant, superstitious, racist, sexist, and backward-thinking 'Neo-Puritans' is somehow influential is a Very Big Mistake for any freedom-loving person who claims to be both progressive and open-minded. We can't let people who believe that everything written by Bronze-Age nomads is the only 'truth' the world needs - I mean, just look at what religious fundamentalist think has done and is continuing to do in the Middle East!

He is yet another crackpot promoting the scientifically refuted "Electric Universe" theory.....But Orangez hit the nail right on the head: Black Holes are places in the Universe where much of the laws of physics break down. This creates a huge problem for many physical models of how the Cosmos works. Since there hasn't been direct observation of these objects(YET!)and AFAIK no microscopic black holes have been created in the laboratory, it makes things more elegant and simple to argue that they don't actually exist.


@Fnord: Many YEC's have adopted the Electric Universe theory and regard Tesla as a prolific genius and the greatest scientist of the 20th century. When in reality, he actually was a crackpot with some useful inventions.

Someone once said, "Black holes are places in the universe where God divided by zero."

That's how I explain it to the fundies.