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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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23 Feb 2015, 2:39 pm

Or does darkness exist because of light?



The_Walrus
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23 Feb 2015, 3:49 pm

No.

Darkness is the absence of (visible) light. Darkness is a subjective experience to an extent, but a universe with no electromagnetism would unquestionably be dark. Contrastingly, in a universe utterly filled with sources of electromagnetic radiation visible to all lifeforms, light would still unquestionably exist despite the absence of darkness.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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23 Feb 2015, 3:56 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
No.

Darkness is the absence of (visible) light. Darkness is a subjective experience to an extent, but a universe with no electromagnetism would unquestionably be dark. Contrastingly, in a universe utterly filled with sources of electromagnetic radiation visible to all lifeforms, light would still unquestionably exist despite the absence of darkness.

So the two really have nothing to do with each other. They just exist. People want to say "without darkness there would be no light" and vice versa but is that really true? We just need darkness to see things a certain way.



aghogday
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23 Feb 2015, 4:33 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
No.

Darkness is the absence of (visible) light. Darkness is a subjective experience to an extent, but a universe with no electromagnetism would unquestionably be dark. Contrastingly, in a universe utterly filled with sources of electromagnetic radiation visible to all lifeforms, light would still unquestionably exist despite the absence of darkness.

So the two really have nothing to do with each other. They just exist. People want to say "without darkness there would be no light" and vice versa but is that really true? We just need darkness to see things a certain way.


When people say LIGHT EXISTS BECAUSE OF DARKNESS that MOST of the time IS a metaphor for human emotion and senses in negative way, as a positive experience is often birthed from a negative experience in subjective human life.

However, if Stephen Hawking is correct, dark can give birth to light in literal metaphor too, as Stephen Hawking suggests that the Universe in Light creates that light from nothing OR TOTAL DARKNESS.

SO IN THAT way Stephen Hawking may eventually prove that at first there is light but before that there is dark.....

The consistent patterns of the tapestry of the Universe extend above so below to inside and outside of human beings all around, and yes Quantum Physics shows this to be evidenced as well.

So yeah, the darkness of human emotions and senses bringing the light of human emotions and senses to human experience in subjective way may equate to the so-called objective Universe of Dark and Light as well..

As is seen in so many aspects of all of nature that is currently viewed by human perspective of the innate or aided and guided 'eye'....

And in that OVERALL WAY,

perhaps tHere IS an

ALL SEEING EYE TOO..

METAPHORICALLY AND LITERALLY
BOTH IN OBJECTIVE AND SUBJECTIVE WAY....

WHO knowsnOW....

IS ALL I KNOW...FOR NOW..:)


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23 Feb 2015, 7:55 pm

What is a lake without water. It's simply a valley. It's purely happenstance that it will fill with water and become not a valley but a lake. In the same way, darkness isn't there for the sake of light. But when there is light, it is no longer darkness. Does a person born blind truly understand light and dark?


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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23 Feb 2015, 8:01 pm

aghogday wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
No.

Darkness is the absence of (visible) light. Darkness is a subjective experience to an extent, but a universe with no electromagnetism would unquestionably be dark. Contrastingly, in a universe utterly filled with sources of electromagnetic radiation visible to all lifeforms, light would still unquestionably exist despite the absence of darkness.

So the two really have nothing to do with each other. They just exist. People want to say "without darkness there would be no light" and vice versa but is that really true? We just need darkness to see things a certain way.


When people say LIGHT EXISTS BECAUSE OF DARKNESS that MOST of the time IS a metaphor for human emotion and senses in negative way, as a positive experience is often birthed from a negative experience in subjective human life.

However, if Stephen Hawking is correct, dark can give birth to light in literal metaphor too, as Stephen Hawking suggests that the Universe in Light creates that light from nothing OR TOTAL DARKNESS.

SO IN THAT way Stephen Hawking may eventually prove that at first there is light but before that there is dark.....

The consistent patterns of the tapestry of the Universe extend above so below to inside and outside of human beings all around, and yes Quantum Physics shows this to be evidenced as well.

So yeah, the darkness of human emotions and senses bringing the light of human emotions and senses to human experience in subjective way may equate to the so-called objective Universe of Dark and Light as well..

As is seen in so many aspects of all of nature that is currently viewed by human perspective of the innate or aided and guided 'eye'....

And in that OVERALL WAY,

perhaps tHere IS an

ALL SEEING EYE TOO..

METAPHORICALLY AND LITERALLY
BOTH IN OBJECTIVE AND SUBJECTIVE WAY....

WHO knowsnOW....

IS ALL I KNOW...FOR NOW..:)

Or maybe it's dark that is the incubator that leads to something that leads to others that lead to light eventually. Still, light and dark would be two separate things. Light waves and darkness are not related to each other, simply exist as two separate entities in a space.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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23 Feb 2015, 8:08 pm

Narrator wrote:
What is a lake without water. It's simply a valley. It's purely happenstance that it will fill with water and become not a valley but a lake. In the same way, darkness isn't there for the sake of light. But when there is light, it is no longer darkness. Does a person born blind truly understand light and dark?


Maybe they can understand dark as what they are seeing but that's only if they actually see dark. Maybe they can see light and dark but not distinguish anything else. Such an individual would have an idea, when in a room with a light turned on, they would notice a change in illumination and could be instructed that change is what everyone else sees as light. When the illumination isn't there, and they only see what sighted people see in a darkened room, they are told that is what those with sight call darkness. This would give them somewhat of an idea and a framework for the light/dark paradigm.

Someone born without actual eyeballs might truly not know what light and dark are but might be able to translate the idea through other senses, hot and cold, for instance.



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23 Feb 2015, 8:15 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Narrator wrote:
What is a lake without water. It's simply a valley. It's purely happenstance that it will fill with water and become not a valley but a lake. In the same way, darkness isn't there for the sake of light. But when there is light, it is no longer darkness. Does a person born blind truly understand light and dark?


Maybe they can understand dark as what they are seeing but that's only if they actually see dark. Maybe they can see light and dark but not distinguish anything else. Such an individual would have an idea, when in a room with a light turned on, they would notice a change in illumination and could be instructed that change is what everyone else sees as light. When the illumination isn't there, and they only see what sighted people see in a darkened room, they are told that is what those with sight call darkness. This would give them somewhat of an idea and a framework for the light/dark paradigm.

Someone born without actual eyeballs might truly not know what light and dark are but might be able to translate the idea through other senses, hot and cold, for instance.

I've known a couple of people, born totally blind, not even a tiny bit of light. They understand the analogy, like sound vs silence, but the it's not something they can truly "visualize."


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I'm not blind to your facial expression - but it may take me a few minutes to comprehend it.
A smile is not always a smile.
A frown is not always a frown.
And a blank look rarely means a blank mind.


ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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23 Feb 2015, 8:52 pm

Narrator wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Narrator wrote:
What is a lake without water. It's simply a valley. It's purely happenstance that it will fill with water and become not a valley but a lake. In the same way, darkness isn't there for the sake of light. But when there is light, it is no longer darkness. Does a person born blind truly understand light and dark?


Maybe they can understand dark as what they are seeing but that's only if they actually see dark. Maybe they can see light and dark but not distinguish anything else. Such an individual would have an idea, when in a room with a light turned on, they would notice a change in illumination and could be instructed that change is what everyone else sees as light. When the illumination isn't there, and they only see what sighted people see in a darkened room, they are told that is what those with sight call darkness. This would give them somewhat of an idea and a framework for the light/dark paradigm.

Someone born without actual eyeballs might truly not know what light and dark are but might be able to translate the idea through other senses, hot and cold, for instance.

I've known a couple of people, born totally blind, not even a tiny bit of light. They understand the analogy, like sound vs silence, but the it's not something they can truly "visualize."


Okay, I understand what you are saying, it takes a frame of reference to truly comprehend what light and dark are.

Scientifically, though, you have to agree, light waves and darkness are two separate things that really have nothing to do with each other. They kinda just co exist.



The_Walrus
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24 Feb 2015, 8:07 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Scientifically, though, you have to agree, light waves and darkness are two separate things that really have nothing to do with each other. They kinda just co exist.

No, not at all. Darkness is the absence of light.



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24 Feb 2015, 8:29 am

No. Light exists. Darkness does not "exist" at all as a thing.

'Darkness" (in the literal scientific sense) is like "coldness", and "silence".

Its not a thing. Its the absence of something.

You can conduct heat, but you cant conduct coldness (though its seems like you can because cold objects, like ice cubes, feel like they are transmitting coldness to you- but such objects are actually sucking heat from you, and thats what your sensing when you touch them).

You can buy a flashlight. But you cant buy a "flash dark" to project a beam of darkness.

Visible light is a narrow band of the spectrum of electromagnetic radiation. A narrow band that our eyes have evolved to be able to capture, and to focus and to use to see things on the earth's surface. The differing frequencies within that band are the different colors.


Going beyond visible light in one direction (higher frequencies) you go into the range of ultraviolet light, and then into X rays, and finnally into gamma rays.

The other way (lower frequencies) you go into infrared light, and then into microwave, and then into other radio wave frequencies.

So "darkness" is the "condition of having a local absence of electromagnetic radiation in the range of visible light". Though the dark area might still be awash in radio waves.