Naturalism is Philosophically Unsound
This thread is going in circles.
The opening argument that "Naturalism is Philosophically Unsound" hasn't been elaborated on, at all. Neither there much argument that science is some how more unsuitable to answer certain questions than (what exactly?).
Also what does "Philosophically Unsound" actually mean in practice?
Why don't you simply say you don't like or believe in naturalism? I think that is more accurate.
I also fail to see what the objective of this thread is.
The opening argument that "Naturalism is Philosophically Unsound" hasn't been elaborated on, at all. Neither there much argument that science is some how more unsuitable to answer certain questions than (what exactly?).
Also what does "Philosophically Unsound" actually mean in practice?
Why don't you simply say you don't like or believe in naturalism? I think that is more accurate.
I also fail to see what the objective of this thread is.
The thread is only going in circles because, among other reasons, people keep asking me 'What is Naturalism?', even though I have already explained the basic idea, and provided a link to an article that goes into more detail. see - http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/naturalism/
and - http://www.allaboutphilosophy.org/naturalism.htm
The latter states: 'Naturalism, commonly known as materialism, is a philosophical paradigm whereby everything can be explained in terms of natural causes. Physical matter is the only reality -- everything can be explained in terms of matter and physical phenomena. Naturalism, by definition, excludes any Supernatural Agent or activity. Thus, naturalism is atheism. Naturalism's exclusion of God necessitates moral relativism. Philosophers agree, without God there is no universal moral standard of conduct.'
Now, does everyone see this?
'Philosophically unsound' means that, as a coherent, true and useful paradigm, the philosophy of Naturalism doesn't work, doesn't do what its supporters claim it does.
I'm going to assume this is just old school 80's BBS style trolling, but I'll humour you anyway.
You can PM him you know. Welcome to PPR forum by the way.
into some kind of automatically dismissive summary of the whole possible argument?
What argument?
What problem?
You heard it here first: Belief in naturalism causes dementia.
I don't have time right now to look, but I am almost certain that you have stated categorically that the existsnxe of god is axiomatic.
As to you highlighting "if anything" trust me this is not in reference to god, it is simply saying that if the universe is not infinite, then something caused its existence. As I have stated several times if god is atemporal then so can energy be. If we have any form of energy we can have universe's. Which brings me to sentience. Maybe as this has a tight definition I should say there is no reason that any atemporal cause have any purpose or direction. You on the other hand have said that you believe god has an infinite hand in all creation and have implied purpose and direction. Again remove the unnecessary requirement for purpose and direction and energy once again fits the bill.
Adifferentname. Acknowledged everything in the universe is s product of its laws not the the way around. However as I understand it if things were slightly different the place would be so chaotic that what we see as complexity would have no chance of forming.
Point 1: Ok, yes, you acknowledge that a vacuum isn't strictly speaking 'nothing'. Glad that was cleared up.
Point 2: I don't recall stating that 'God' was axiomatic, but I would certainly have said that the idea itself is not inherently false, self-contradictory, that it makes sense, and there was no specific evidence that ruled it out.
Point 3: 'As I have stated several times if god is atemporal then so can energy be.'
Really? Why? Explain.
Point 4: 'If we have any form of energy we can have universe's.'
This is simply an assumption. Do you actually know this? Why should anyone believe this?
Point 5: 'You on the other hand have said that you believe god has an infinite hand in all creation and have implied purpose and direction. Again remove the unnecessary requirement for purpose and direction and energy once again fits the bill.'
I never mentioned purpose, nor did I even 'imply' it. I don't 'imply', I always say what I mean and mean what I say.
If you don't know what caused the universe to appear, how can you be so certain that, whatever it was, it did not require sentience?
into some kind of automatically dismissive summary of the whole possible argument?
I also fail to see what the objective of this thread is.
Let's all make a committment to avoiding the use of ad hominem attacks, shall we? I know I've done it myself and been called a hypocrite for doing so, but if it goes on there will no longer be any point to this discussion, and even though a couple of posts back I called for it to be shut down, I would still be disappointed if it were.
DentArthurDent
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Joined: 26 Jul 2008
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I for one have had enough of David's personal attacks and have reported the post you have outlined, to the mods for action. On occasions I have resorted to personal attacks but nothing like David. When a post consists primarily of ad hominem and abuse then there is no point in further discussion and when this behaviour continues unchecked it is time to take a stand.
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We've received the report - thanks Dent, I'll have a word with him...
Considering the direction this thread has taken, that may be the better idea.
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