US still not recognizing Armenian Genocide after 100 years.

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The_Face_of_Boo
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27 Apr 2015, 2:51 pm

http://www.ibtimes.com/100-years-after- ... gy-1893131

Yet you jump down the throat of Jewish-holocaust deniers?



Janissy
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27 Apr 2015, 3:40 pm

Obama did weasel out on calling it a genocide. Kim Kardashian called him out on it. This is the best thing she has ever used her celebrity for. As America's most famous celeb of Armenian heritage (sorry, Andre Agassi) she is probably in a unique position to do this. When celebs talk, Americans listen. That's just how we are. :oops:


http://time.com/3835074/kim-kardashian-west-armenian-genocide/

^^^^Kim Kardhashian using her celebrity for something meaningful instead of something vacuous.



trollcatman
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27 Apr 2015, 4:11 pm

They weasel out of it because Turkey is a NATO ally, and the US has really weird ideas about that country. Their diplomants even wanted Turkey to join the EU, which is of course never going to happen, certainly not since Erdogan.
Most of the EU has recognized the genocide, here is a map. Dark green means recognition, light green means that some sub-national region or political party recognizes it as genocide. It comes from this wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide_recognition


Image



trollcatman
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27 Apr 2015, 4:13 pm

^^^ Looking at that map I just posted, it seems mostly Western countries, Russia, and two sort of Shia-led countries Iran and Syria. Asia and Africa don't care or took the other position.



BorgPrince
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27 Apr 2015, 4:56 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
http://www.ibtimes.com/100-years-after-armenian-genocide-lebanons-armenians-demand-us-recognition-apology-1893131

Yet you jump down the throat of Jewish-holocaust deniers?


We do? You should come here one day. We're not a homogeneous bunch.

You should rephrase your thread title to: "The People in Charge Still Not Recognizing Issue 32483293."



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27 Apr 2015, 5:25 pm

Russia has a base there.

All the neighbors, Greek, Syrian, Iran, Russia, call the Turks murders.

America has a base in turkey, several, where they spy, and train and arm moderated members of ISIS.

The Armenians were a pawn in The Great Powers Game.

Germany, The Austro-Hungarians, wanted to link up with the Ottomans.

The British wanted to wreck everyone, and loot the Ottomans.

Armenians in Turkey were told if they made trouble, the Christian west would come to their aid.

Armenian deaths did make the papers, showing what animals the Turks were, so Britain could beat the war drums,
and an Arch Duke gets killed, WWI is declared.

Lots of people die in Europe, and Britain and France split up the Ottoman Empire.

It was much the same as the Americans telling the Kurds and the Marsh Arabs in the south that if they started trouble for Saddam, America would step in. They did, and after tens of thousands did die, America put sanctions on Iraq, for killing the people America played into the meat grinder.

Recognizing Genocide, is admitting to setting them up.



0_equals_true
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27 Apr 2015, 5:38 pm

trollcatman wrote:
They weasel out of it because Turkey is a NATO ally, and the US has really weird ideas about that country.


Most of the NATO countries don't deny the genocide. On the contrary.

US is in the company of countries like Pakistan, in denying the genocide.



0_equals_true
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27 Apr 2015, 5:48 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
http://www.ibtimes.com/100-years-after-armenian-genocide-lebanons-armenians-demand-us-recognition-apology-1893131

Yet you jump down the throat of Jewish-holocaust deniers?


Holocaust deniers that are Jewish or the Jewish Holocaust?

The holocaust, killed Poles and other Slavic nations, Jews, Roma, Sami, various non-conformist Christians, Political dissidents, Freemasons, Blacks, Disabled, LGBT, even Roman Catholics.



trollcatman
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27 Apr 2015, 6:14 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
They weasel out of it because Turkey is a NATO ally, and the US has really weird ideas about that country.


Most of the NATO countries don't deny the genocide. On the contrary.

US is in the company of countries like Pakistan, in denying the genocide.


I think the US is more concerned with not upsetting the likes of Turkey or Saudi Arabia or Pakistan than Europe is. Even though Turkey has been a lousy NATO ally lately. Seems they are closer to Russia, not sure what they are still doing here anyway.



naturalplastic
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27 Apr 2015, 6:24 pm

Americans as individual people don't deny the Armenian Holocaust.

Never meant an American who denied it.

Exactly for that reason it is indeed newsworthy to me as an American that our government does not recognize the event as genocide.

But the Armenian genocide doesnt loom large as a topic of conversation (the way that Hitler does)here in the USA either (the way it might in nearby countries in the Middle East).

And Nazi holocaust deniers DO come out of the woodwork here in the USA (and here on WP) from time to time.

But this isn't the first time that America has kissed an ally's ass. We need that NATO member (that borders both Syria, and Iraq) at this moment. So its not a convenient moment for our commander and chief to publicly acknowledge ugly truths about Turkey's past. Oh well.



trollcatman
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27 Apr 2015, 6:33 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
But this isn't the first time that America has kissed an ally's ass. We need that NATO member (that borders both Syria, and Iraq) at this moment. So its not a convenient moment for our commander and chief to publicly acknowledge ugly truths about Turkey's past. Oh well.


Need them for what? They are not fighting ISIS at all, and a lot of the ISIS fighters got into Syria and Iraq via Turkey.



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27 Apr 2015, 7:33 pm

Armenia was a local issue. The holocaust was Eurasian and started well before WWII.

It was a great wave of ethnic cleansing. Stalin was doing it before the Nazis took power. The capital of Moldova was majority Jewish, then Jew Free, and the Germans never got there. Ukraine killed Jews and Poles along their border. The Roma were all over Europe, but are never heard about in Russia, Ukraine, because they were killed.

Islamic people were sent to Siberia, most did not live.

Germans came late to the game. But being Germans they built factories, transport, kept records. Donations flowed in from all over Europe.

Once it got started, everybody had at least some door to door Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, minor but persistent criminals, village idiots, witches, to donate to the cause.

It was not just the British and French spy networks running through Jews, Homosexuals, and Missionaries.

It was not just the Germans. It started before the war.

From the Atlantic to the Urals, it was mass slaughter of the different.

Volga Germans and Prussians were being slaughtered, by Slavs.

Ukrainians were killing Russians, Poles, Jews, Roma. Stalin caused a famine to slow them down.

When the German army went east it was into the lands they had lost in WWI, that had a German population, now missing. Those that had killed them and taken their farms were exterminated.

When the Red Army advanced through Ukraine, they killed the Ukrainians, before they reached the Germans. After the war, Bandera Ukraine's were still killing Russians. They fought on till 1950.

Holocaust, Genocide, are words to small to describe what went on between the wars.

The Great Eurasian Murderfest!



The_Face_of_Boo
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28 Apr 2015, 1:54 am

0_equals_true wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
http://www.ibtimes.com/100-years-after-armenian-genocide-lebanons-armenians-demand-us-recognition-apology-1893131

Yet you jump down the throat of Jewish-holocaust deniers?


Holocaust deniers that are Jewish or the Jewish Holocaust?

The holocaust, killed Poles and other Slavic nations, Jews, Roma, Sami, various non-conformist Christians, Political dissidents, Freemasons, Blacks, Disabled, LGBT, even Roman Catholics.


Deniers of the Jewish Holocaust -not Jewish deniers.

Deniers today often deny it because they hate Jews for political/religious reasons, regardless what other groups the nazis killed back then.



The_Face_of_Boo
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28 Apr 2015, 1:57 am

Janissy wrote:
Obama did weasel out on calling it a genocide. Kim Kardashian called him out on it. This is the best thing she has ever used her celebrity for. As America's most famous celeb of Armenian heritage (sorry, Andre Agassi) she is probably in a unique position to do this. When celebs talk, Americans listen. That's just how we are. :oops:


http://time.com/3835074/kim-kardashian-west-armenian-genocide/

^^^^Kim Kardhashian using her celebrity for something meaningful instead of something vacuous.


Yay! for once, she's not using her ass, or does she? :lol:



The_Face_of_Boo
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28 Apr 2015, 2:01 am

trollcatman wrote:
They weasel out of it because Turkey is a NATO ally, and the US has really weird ideas about that country. Their diplomants even wanted Turkey to join the EU, which is of course never going to happen, certainly not since Erdogan.
Most of the EU has recognized the genocide, here is a map. Dark green means recognition, light green means that some sub-national region or political party recognizes it as genocide. It comes from this wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide_recognition


Image


It's funny how Israel doesn't recognize it, so hypocrite, no?



0_equals_true
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28 Apr 2015, 5:19 pm

Inventor wrote:
Armenia was a local issue.


It is deeply connected to geopolitics of the time. WWI, fall of the Ottoman empire, the Young Turks. Calling is simply a local issue is not right.

In fact WWI started becuase of similar "local issues".