Transgender want YOU to pay for their procedures

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beneficii
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03 Aug 2015, 4:45 pm

This article details that desire well:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/31/health/tr ... osts-irpt/

Jo Avelyn Gray here wants you to pay so she can have bigger breasts, among other demands:

Quote:
Jo Avelyn Grey came out as transgender to her family at 11 years old and began to transition medically four years ago, in her early 20s. Some of Grey's medical expenses are covered by her insurance, Kaiser Permanente, including her hormone therapy, a portion of her gender reassignment surgery and preparatory genital electrolysis that has to be done before the surgery. The insurance does not cover facial electrolysis (beard removal), laser body hair reduction, breast augmentation or facial feminization surgery, all of which Grey considers vital to her survival as a transgender woman.


Nicholas Ballou wants you to pay so he can have his breasts sliced off:

Quote:
Ballou said he lives in constant fear, and he'll continue to bind his chest each day and search for a way to have his medical procedure. He said he may need to move back to California to have it done.

"I haven't stepped out of my house in 10 years without serious binding," he said. "It's constantly on my mind; I'm never not thinking about it. It's really hard. It's just a consistent fear."


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watson503
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03 Aug 2015, 5:07 pm

I get confused reading snippets of these articles keeping track of "he/she, him/her". Strange times we are living in, indeed.



Bataar
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03 Aug 2015, 5:31 pm

I just don't like the idea of encouraging them in their mental disorder. It would be like telling a person with Schizophrenia that the voices they are real and it's normal.



Fugu
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03 Aug 2015, 5:41 pm

beneficii wrote:
This article details that desire well:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/31/health/tr ... osts-irpt/

Jo Avelyn Gray here wants you to pay so she can have bigger breasts, among other demands:

Quote:
Jo Avelyn Grey came out as transgender to her family at 11 years old and began to transition medically four years ago, in her early 20s. Some of Grey's medical expenses are covered by her insurance, Kaiser Permanente, including her hormone therapy, a portion of her gender reassignment surgery and preparatory genital electrolysis that has to be done before the surgery. The insurance does not cover facial electrolysis (beard removal), laser body hair reduction, breast augmentation or facial feminization surgery, all of which Grey considers vital to her survival as a transgender woman.


Nicholas Ballou wants you to pay so he can have his breasts sliced off:

Quote:
Ballou said he lives in constant fear, and he'll continue to bind his chest each day and search for a way to have his medical procedure. He said he may need to move back to California to have it done.

"I haven't stepped out of my house in 10 years without serious binding," he said. "It's constantly on my mind; I'm never not thinking about it. It's really hard. It's just a consistent fear."
why are you outraged about this? you'd benefit from this being enacted as well.



beneficii
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03 Aug 2015, 6:04 pm

Fugu,

It's not about what would benefit me. Rather, it's about premium payers and taxpayers, many of whom struggle to make ends meet, and whether they're going to have to pay extra so a tiny portion of the population can benefit. They deserve to understand the reality of what their money would be going toward and to have an informed opinion on whether their money should go towards the kinds of procedures mentioned in the OP.


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naturalplastic
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03 Aug 2015, 6:08 pm

Yeah ^. I am also confused.

When Obamacare was first in the news the OP started a whole series of threads about how outraged the OP was that the taxpayers was NOT paying for transgender operations even with the new reforms.

And now the OP is outraged that transgender folks ARE getting the tax payer to pay for transgender operations.

Which way do you want us taxpayers to be outraged? That we are paying, or that we are not paying?



beneficii
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03 Aug 2015, 6:12 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Yeah ^. I am also confused.

When Obamacare was first in the news the OP started a whole series of threads about how outraged the OP was that the taxpayers was NOT paying for transgender operations even with the new reforms.

And now the OP is outraged that transgender folks ARE getting the tax payer to pay for transgender operations.

Which way do you want us taxpayers to be outraged? That we are paying, or that we are not paying?


Actually, what I want is to hear your view.


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naturalplastic
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03 Aug 2015, 6:21 pm

beneficii wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Yeah ^. I am also confused.

When Obamacare was first in the news the OP started a whole series of threads about how outraged the OP was that the taxpayers was NOT paying for transgender operations even with the new reforms.

And now the OP is outraged that transgender folks ARE getting the tax payer to pay for transgender operations.

Which way do you want us taxpayers to be outraged? That we are paying, or that we are not paying?


Actually, what I want is to hear your view.


Oh. Okay.



I am not against transgender folks, but it's not obvious to me why the taxpayer should have to pay for them to be surgically remodeled.



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03 Aug 2015, 6:28 pm

My taxes pay for a bunch of crap.

I don't see this as any different.


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LoveNotHate
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03 Aug 2015, 8:58 pm

Supplemental outrage ;)

We don't have the money
-Our soldiers are getting inadequate care at the VA, and now they want us to pay for these people?
-We have higher priorities
-We can't afford this.

It isn't fair
-Plenty of men and women want cosmetic surgery, why isn't it free for everyone?

Religious objection
-Tax money should not be going towards immoral procedures!

Wrong treatment
-psychotherapy is the answer here, not surgery
-many of them reverse the surgery later on



blauSamstag
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03 Aug 2015, 11:32 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
beneficii wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Yeah ^. I am also confused.

When Obamacare was first in the news the OP started a whole series of threads about how outraged the OP was that the taxpayers was NOT paying for transgender operations even with the new reforms.

And now the OP is outraged that transgender folks ARE getting the tax payer to pay for transgender operations.

Which way do you want us taxpayers to be outraged? That we are paying, or that we are not paying?


Actually, what I want is to hear your view.


Oh. Okay.



I am not against transgender folks, but it's not obvious to me why the taxpayer should have to pay for them to be surgically remodeled.


For a relatively tiny number of people with full-on gender dysphoria, it's the only way currently known for them to become happy.

The suicide rate is pretty bad.

Some of those people have no other way to get it done but through government assistance.

I can't honestly say that i'm happy about it, but on the list of things my taxes pay for that offend me, things like the indirect subsidization of corporations that pay their people starvation wages so they have no choice but to apply for government assistance piss me off a whole lot more. That more than half of my federal taxes go to the military so that we can spent 2 trillion dollars invading and occupying a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 - stuff like that - is just mind blowing.

This is way down under "fine, whatever" territory.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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04 Aug 2015, 8:16 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
Supplemental outrage ;)

We don't have the money
-Our soldiers are getting inadequate care at the VA, and now they want us to pay for these people?
-We have higher priorities
-We can't afford this.

It isn't fair
-Plenty of men and women want cosmetic surgery, why isn't it free for everyone?

Religious objection
-Tax money should not be going towards immoral procedures!

Wrong treatment
-psychotherapy is the answer here, not surgery
-many of them reverse the surgery later on



Think of it this way, if someone has Gender Dysmorphia and it impedes their ability to work, they would eventually end up in a psychiatric hospital for treatment and it would cost more than solving their crises this way and it likely wouldn't work, either. Then after going through a lengthy, expensive, process they reach the same conclusion so why not just do this first? It would save money.



Jacoby
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04 Aug 2015, 8:29 am

The cosmetic stuff I can understand to some degree since it allows them to live outwardly as they please but I don't believe full SRS of the genitals is right, I think of that as more of Frankenstein experiment. It's not something that can be undone and it is not an equivalence, I think it is wrong that their are doctors selling this surgery to patients as means to fixing their gender dysphoria when all they're are doing is butchering the one body they were born with and turning them into eunuchs. I think it is a violation of their oath to do no harm with the risks far outweighing any possible benefit, if the surgery does not cure their dsyphoria then the potential implications of it are horrifying. I wish we could just transplant brains into other bodies or something in that nature but the technology is not there. If somebody wants to practice extremely body modification on themselves then I think they should pay for it with their own money.



LoveNotHate
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04 Aug 2015, 9:19 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Think of it this way, if someone has Gender Dysmorphia and it impedes their ability to work, they would eventually end up in a psychiatric hospital for treatment and it would cost more than solving their crises this way and it likely wouldn't work, either. Then after going through a lengthy, expensive, process they reach the same conclusion so why not just do this first? It would save money.


I agree, trans people have a medical need.

Beneficii appears to be using the 'Socratic Method' of asserting something she believes is right -- is wrong.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method

I identified the common objections that people raise. These were not my personal feelings on the matter.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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04 Aug 2015, 9:22 am

It's easier for people without Gender Dysmorphia to distance themselves from sex changes because they don't have Gender Dysmorphia, and that's part of not having it. So how could those who do not have it possibly understand what those who do need or want? If I had this disorder, I would absolutely despise what I was born with and wouldn't be able to live with myself the way I am but I can so obviously I don't have it. I try to see it from the point of view of those who do instead of just assuming I know what's in their best interest.



blauSamstag
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04 Aug 2015, 11:13 am

Two things that i find problematic.

1: is it likely that we will see a day when every person a trans person communicates with will be as supportive of their choice as their therapist.

2: will we see a day when some other, less invasive therapy for gender dysmorphia or dysphoria is developed.