Is it a sin to seek knowledge?
12 Jun 2015, 12:57 pm
Is it a sin to seek knowledge?
Is it a sin to want to open one’s eyes instead of being blind?
Is it a sin to do as scriptures urge us to do?
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Gen 3:2 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:
Adam and Eve were doing exactly what we are all told by scriptures to do, yet God seemed quite upset.
Why is seeking knowledge and ignoring a vile command to remain in ignorant bliss wrong or a sin?
Are you sinning when you seek knowledge and becoming more like God?
Regards
DL
12 Jun 2015, 1:14 pm
Prior to the eating of the apple by Eve, Adam and Eve lived like wild animals in this beautiful wilderness called Eden. They weren't really human, they were animal-like, and God wanted to keep them that way because it seemed to cause them less suffering to exist in that state of mind. So He forbid them be knowledgeable of anything but that way of existing because he wanted them to stay happy and never suffer. He thought that was the best way to be.
According to God, the first sin was when Eve was tempted by the Serpent, or dragon. She became knowledgeable afterward and awareness followed. No longer was she like a wild animal. She began to resemble a human being with human needs like shelter and agriculture. She became aware of her body and felt it must be covered when before, it didn't matter. Nakedness didn't seem unnatural prior to becoming knowledgeable. She no longer experienced the contented state of mind. Instead she was always discontented and this discontent spread to Adam as well and they both became sad humans at this point.
It can be argued the Bible itself is a form of knowledge and just by reading it, one becomes knowledgeable, so how can knowledge be a sin?
12 Jun 2015, 2:07 pm
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Prior to the eating of the apple by Eve, Adam and Eve lived like wild animals in this beautiful wilderness called Eden. They weren't really human, they were animal-like, and God wanted to keep them that way because it seemed to cause them less suffering to exist in that state of mind. So He forbid them be knowledgeable of anything but that way of existing because he wanted them to stay happy and never suffer. He thought that was the best way to be.
According to God, the first sin was when Eve was tempted by the Serpent, or dragon. She became knowledgeable afterward and awareness followed. No longer was she like a wild animal. She began to resemble a human being with human needs like shelter and agriculture. She became aware of her body and felt it must be covered when before, it didn't matter. Nakedness didn't seem unnatural prior to becoming knowledgeable. She no longer experienced the contented state of mind. Instead she was always discontented and this discontent spread to Adam as well and they both became sad humans at this point.
It can be argued the Bible itself is a form of knowledge and just by reading it, one becomes knowledgeable, so how can knowledge be a sin?
According to God, the first sin was when Eve was tempted by the Serpent, or dragon. She became knowledgeable afterward and awareness followed. No longer was she like a wild animal. She began to resemble a human being with human needs like shelter and agriculture. She became aware of her body and felt it must be covered when before, it didn't matter. Nakedness didn't seem unnatural prior to becoming knowledgeable. She no longer experienced the contented state of mind. Instead she was always discontented and this discontent spread to Adam as well and they both became sad humans at this point.
It can be argued the Bible itself is a form of knowledge and just by reading it, one becomes knowledgeable, so how can knowledge be a sin?
So you would see God's punishment as unfair. Right?
Regards
DL
12 Jun 2015, 2:15 pm
Marky9 wrote:
I don't know. But I was recently reading about Ancient Greece, and this topic seemed quite popular around 350 BCE as well. I'm wondering if any recorded thoughts from the likes of Socrates, Plato, or Aristotle might be enlightening.
Yes it would be but first we would have to listen to a lot of
Those men were goats. Not sheep. So to speak.
Thinkers instead of non-thinkers.
Regards
DL
nerdygirl
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Joined: 16 Jun 2014
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12 Jun 2015, 2:29 pm
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Prior to the eating of the apple by Eve, Adam and Eve lived like wild animals in this beautiful wilderness called Eden. They weren't really human, they were animal-like, and God wanted to keep them that way because it seemed to cause them less suffering to exist in that state of mind. So He forbid them be knowledgeable of anything but that way of existing because he wanted them to stay happy and never suffer. He thought that was the best way to be.
According to God, the first sin was when Eve was tempted by the Serpent, or dragon. She became knowledgeable afterward and awareness followed. No longer was she like a wild animal. She began to resemble a human being with human needs like shelter and agriculture. She became aware of her body and felt it must be covered when before, it didn't matter. Nakedness didn't seem unnatural prior to becoming knowledgeable. She no longer experienced the contented state of mind. Instead she was always discontented and this discontent spread to Adam as well and they both became sad humans at this point.
It can be argued the Bible itself is a form of knowledge and just by reading it, one becomes knowledgeable, so how can knowledge be a sin?
According to God, the first sin was when Eve was tempted by the Serpent, or dragon. She became knowledgeable afterward and awareness followed. No longer was she like a wild animal. She began to resemble a human being with human needs like shelter and agriculture. She became aware of her body and felt it must be covered when before, it didn't matter. Nakedness didn't seem unnatural prior to becoming knowledgeable. She no longer experienced the contented state of mind. Instead she was always discontented and this discontent spread to Adam as well and they both became sad humans at this point.
It can be argued the Bible itself is a form of knowledge and just by reading it, one becomes knowledgeable, so how can knowledge be a sin?
Before the Fall, Adam & Eve were not just like animals. According to Genesis 1:26-28, they were already superior to the animals, given the work of subduing the earth and having dominion over the animals.
26 Then God said, “Let us make man[h] in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
27
So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” (ESV)
The sin was not the pursuit of knowledge, though in this instance the sin involved a pursuit of knowledge. The sin was the attempted usurping of God's authority. This was done by the serpent (and, really, started in Heaven before Lucifer was banished) and continued by Eve, then Adam and on to today. The desire to "become like God" indicated a dissatisfaction they had of being submissive creatures before their Creator. The root of all sin is pride.
12 Jun 2015, 3:07 pm
nerdygirl wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Prior to the eating of the apple by Eve, Adam and Eve lived like wild animals in this beautiful wilderness called Eden. They weren't really human, they were animal-like, and God wanted to keep them that way because it seemed to cause them less suffering to exist in that state of mind. So He forbid them be knowledgeable of anything but that way of existing because he wanted them to stay happy and never suffer. He thought that was the best way to be.
According to God, the first sin was when Eve was tempted by the Serpent, or dragon. She became knowledgeable afterward and awareness followed. No longer was she like a wild animal. She began to resemble a human being with human needs like shelter and agriculture. She became aware of her body and felt it must be covered when before, it didn't matter. Nakedness didn't seem unnatural prior to becoming knowledgeable. She no longer experienced the contented state of mind. Instead she was always discontented and this discontent spread to Adam as well and they both became sad humans at this point.
It can be argued the Bible itself is a form of knowledge and just by reading it, one becomes knowledgeable, so how can knowledge be a sin?
According to God, the first sin was when Eve was tempted by the Serpent, or dragon. She became knowledgeable afterward and awareness followed. No longer was she like a wild animal. She began to resemble a human being with human needs like shelter and agriculture. She became aware of her body and felt it must be covered when before, it didn't matter. Nakedness didn't seem unnatural prior to becoming knowledgeable. She no longer experienced the contented state of mind. Instead she was always discontented and this discontent spread to Adam as well and they both became sad humans at this point.
It can be argued the Bible itself is a form of knowledge and just by reading it, one becomes knowledgeable, so how can knowledge be a sin?
Before the Fall, Adam & Eve were not just like animals. According to Genesis 1:26-28, they were already superior to the animals, given the work of subduing the earth and having dominion over the animals.
26 Then God said, “Let us make man[h] in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
27
So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” (ESV)
The sin was not the pursuit of knowledge, though in this instance the sin involved a pursuit of knowledge. The sin was the attempted usurping of God's authority. This was done by the serpent (and, really, started in Heaven before Lucifer was banished) and continued by Eve, then Adam and on to today. The desire to "become like God" indicated a dissatisfaction they had of being submissive creatures before their Creator. The root of all sin is pride.
Created in God's image.
You must mean mental image, right?
It would be too funny to see God with both a dick and breasts.
So if created in God's mental image, was God also rather stupid?
You also indicate that pride is a sin. Was God sinning when he indicated he was proud of Jesus?
In him I am well pleased is the term used If I recall.
When you take pride in your family or work, are you sinning?
If not please explain what you mean by n God's image.
Regards
DL
12 Jun 2015, 3:20 pm
nerdygirl wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Prior to the eating of the apple by Eve, Adam and Eve lived like wild animals in this beautiful wilderness called Eden. They weren't really human, they were animal-like, and God wanted to keep them that way because it seemed to cause them less suffering to exist in that state of mind. So He forbid them be knowledgeable of anything but that way of existing because he wanted them to stay happy and never suffer. He thought that was the best way to be.
According to God, the first sin was when Eve was tempted by the Serpent, or dragon. She became knowledgeable afterward and awareness followed. No longer was she like a wild animal. She began to resemble a human being with human needs like shelter and agriculture. She became aware of her body and felt it must be covered when before, it didn't matter. Nakedness didn't seem unnatural prior to becoming knowledgeable. She no longer experienced the contented state of mind. Instead she was always discontented and this discontent spread to Adam as well and they both became sad humans at this point.
It can be argued the Bible itself is a form of knowledge and just by reading it, one becomes knowledgeable, so how can knowledge be a sin?
According to God, the first sin was when Eve was tempted by the Serpent, or dragon. She became knowledgeable afterward and awareness followed. No longer was she like a wild animal. She began to resemble a human being with human needs like shelter and agriculture. She became aware of her body and felt it must be covered when before, it didn't matter. Nakedness didn't seem unnatural prior to becoming knowledgeable. She no longer experienced the contented state of mind. Instead she was always discontented and this discontent spread to Adam as well and they both became sad humans at this point.
It can be argued the Bible itself is a form of knowledge and just by reading it, one becomes knowledgeable, so how can knowledge be a sin?
Before the Fall, Adam & Eve were not just like animals. According to Genesis 1:26-28, they were already superior to the animals, given the work of subduing the earth and having dominion over the animals.
26 Then God said, “Let us make man[h] in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
27
So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” (ESV)
The sin was not the pursuit of knowledge, though in this instance the sin involved a pursuit of knowledge. The sin was the attempted usurping of God's authority. This was done by the serpent (and, really, started in Heaven before Lucifer was banished) and continued by Eve, then Adam and on to today. The desire to "become like God" indicated a dissatisfaction they had of being submissive creatures before their Creator. The root of all sin is pride.
We do know that, at one time, humans were very much at the mercy of the animals as well as certain animals being at the mercy of humans so they did not have dominion over all the animals, only some of them. For instance, bears, wolves, tigers, and other predators can easily kill an unarmed human. All it takes is one snake bite from a venomous adder, which I am sure is why a serpent appears in the story. They are quite stealthy and sneaky, for the most part, unless they rattle, which not all of them do, so they can be quite deadly. Is it true we really have dominion over the animals? Only if we have a weapon and can administer a lethal blow before the animal does so to us first. It's actually our knowledge that has allowed this to happen. Being in a mental state that does not know means not having weapons to protect oneself because the intelligence either doesn't exist to invent them or the ability to do it is shunned because God said not to.
The way I interpreted the creation story is very much like how humans have advanced. We have come form the wilderness into civilization. We have gone from hunter/gatherer societies to agricultural based civilizations. You must have more knowledge to grow crops than to hunt and gather. So you see the application of knowledge has happened alongside civilization. Where ever there's civilizations, there's always a period of striving, a plateau, then a decline. It's happened time and time again so it would look like God were dooming it and one conclusion is it's because of all the knowledge the ruling class has.
And it might be true, Adam and Eve disobeyed God, but God specifically said not to eat from the tree of knowledge. He could of ordered them not to do any number of things but it was that in particular he told them not to do so this cannot be ignored. It's not just they disobeyed, it's they became aware as well because, although awareness is helpful in many ways, it hurts too. For instance, suppose someone you trusted plotted against you and you never found out. The plot never materialized and whomever was plotting suddenly was stricken with a guilty conscience about plotting evil against a friend. If you never found this out, you would continue on thinking good thoughts about this friend. You would still trust them, and if they feel bad about it, never actually did it and swore never do anything and to be a true friend from then on out, there would be no harm done despite the fact at one time they were thinking about doing something. If you found out, even if you know they feel bad and would never do it, you might still be a bit leery and mistrustful. You wouldn't feel as great about having them as a friend. Becoming aware of the plot, even though it never happened, would leave you feeling shaken and betrayed. At least it would me. It's this idea about awareness in the tree of knowledge. It can be good but it can also cause harm.
Mankind only had "dominion" after Adam and Eve ate "fruit" from the tree of knowledge. Before they weren't as civilized, they stayed in one area, the Garden of Eden. Then viola, the fruit was eaten, suddenly they are able to create advanced weapons, shoes for their feet, clothing that protected their skin, they knew about seasons, calendars and how to grow crops, they figured out how to build fortresses, pyramids, marble castles, great walls. The story is a metaphor for how humans went from being very simple to more complex.
nerdygirl
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Joined: 16 Jun 2014
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Posts: 1,645
Location: In the land of abstractions and ideas.
12 Jun 2015, 10:28 pm
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
nerdygirl wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Prior to the eating of the apple by Eve, Adam and Eve lived like wild animals in this beautiful wilderness called Eden. They weren't really human, they were animal-like, and God wanted to keep them that way because it seemed to cause them less suffering to exist in that state of mind. So He forbid them be knowledgeable of anything but that way of existing because he wanted them to stay happy and never suffer. He thought that was the best way to be.
According to God, the first sin was when Eve was tempted by the Serpent, or dragon. She became knowledgeable afterward and awareness followed. No longer was she like a wild animal. She began to resemble a human being with human needs like shelter and agriculture. She became aware of her body and felt it must be covered when before, it didn't matter. Nakedness didn't seem unnatural prior to becoming knowledgeable. She no longer experienced the contented state of mind. Instead she was always discontented and this discontent spread to Adam as well and they both became sad humans at this point.
It can be argued the Bible itself is a form of knowledge and just by reading it, one becomes knowledgeable, so how can knowledge be a sin?
According to God, the first sin was when Eve was tempted by the Serpent, or dragon. She became knowledgeable afterward and awareness followed. No longer was she like a wild animal. She began to resemble a human being with human needs like shelter and agriculture. She became aware of her body and felt it must be covered when before, it didn't matter. Nakedness didn't seem unnatural prior to becoming knowledgeable. She no longer experienced the contented state of mind. Instead she was always discontented and this discontent spread to Adam as well and they both became sad humans at this point.
It can be argued the Bible itself is a form of knowledge and just by reading it, one becomes knowledgeable, so how can knowledge be a sin?
Before the Fall, Adam & Eve were not just like animals. According to Genesis 1:26-28, they were already superior to the animals, given the work of subduing the earth and having dominion over the animals.
26 Then God said, “Let us make man[h] in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
27
So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” (ESV)
The sin was not the pursuit of knowledge, though in this instance the sin involved a pursuit of knowledge. The sin was the attempted usurping of God's authority. This was done by the serpent (and, really, started in Heaven before Lucifer was banished) and continued by Eve, then Adam and on to today. The desire to "become like God" indicated a dissatisfaction they had of being submissive creatures before their Creator. The root of all sin is pride.
We do know that, at one time, humans were very much at the mercy of the animals as well as certain animals being at the mercy of humans so they did not have dominion over all the animals, only some of them. For instance, bears, wolves, tigers, and other predators can easily kill an unarmed human. All it takes is one snake bite from a venomous adder, which I am sure is why a serpent appears in the story. They are quite stealthy and sneaky, for the most part, unless they rattle, which not all of them do, so they can be quite deadly. Is it true we really have dominion over the animals? Only if we have a weapon and can administer a lethal blow before the animal does so to us first. It's actually our knowledge that has allowed this to happen. Being in a mental state that does not know means not having weapons to protect oneself because the intelligence either doesn't exist to invent them or the ability to do it is shunned because God said not to.
The way I interpreted the creation story is very much like how humans have advanced. We have come form the wilderness into civilization. We have gone from hunter/gatherer societies to agricultural based civilizations. You must have more knowledge to grow crops than to hunt and gather. So you see the application of knowledge has happened alongside civilization. Where ever there's civilizations, there's always a period of striving, a plateau, then a decline. It's happened time and time again so it would look like God were dooming it and one conclusion is it's because of all the knowledge the ruling class has.
And it might be true, Adam and Eve disobeyed God, but God specifically said not to eat from the tree of knowledge. He could of ordered them not to do any number of things but it was that in particular he told them not to do so this cannot be ignored. It's not just they disobeyed, it's they became aware as well because, although awareness is helpful in many ways, it hurts too. For instance, suppose someone you trusted plotted against you and you never found out. The plot never materialized and whomever was plotting suddenly was stricken with a guilty conscience about plotting evil against a friend. If you never found this out, you would continue on thinking good thoughts about this friend. You would still trust them, and if they feel bad about it, never actually did it and swore never do anything and to be a true friend from then on out, there would be no harm done despite the fact at one time they were thinking about doing something. If you found out, even if you know they feel bad and would never do it, you might still be a bit leery and mistrustful. You wouldn't feel as great about having them as a friend. Becoming aware of the plot, even though it never happened, would leave you feeling shaken and betrayed. At least it would me. It's this idea about awareness in the tree of knowledge. It can be good but it can also cause harm.
Mankind only had "dominion" after Adam and Eve ate "fruit" from the tree of knowledge. Before they weren't as civilized, they stayed in one area, the Garden of Eden. Then viola, the fruit was eaten, suddenly they are able to create advanced weapons, shoes for their feet, clothing that protected their skin, they knew about seasons, calendars and how to grow crops, they figured out how to build fortresses, pyramids, marble castles, great walls. The story is a metaphor for how humans went from being very simple to more complex.
The tree was specifically of the knowledge of good and evil. I don't see how you can read into it that it was the tree of ALL KNOWLEDGE.
Adam & Eve knew shame after eating of the tree. They became aware of a guilty conscience.
You cannot assume that all other knowledge proceeded from this tree and would not have been learned elsewhere.
nerdygirl
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Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,645
Location: In the land of abstractions and ideas.
12 Jun 2015, 10:41 pm
GnosticBishop wrote:
nerdygirl wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Prior to the eating of the apple by Eve, Adam and Eve lived like wild animals in this beautiful wilderness called Eden. They weren't really human, they were animal-like, and God wanted to keep them that way because it seemed to cause them less suffering to exist in that state of mind. So He forbid them be knowledgeable of anything but that way of existing because he wanted them to stay happy and never suffer. He thought that was the best way to be.
According to God, the first sin was when Eve was tempted by the Serpent, or dragon. She became knowledgeable afterward and awareness followed. No longer was she like a wild animal. She began to resemble a human being with human needs like shelter and agriculture. She became aware of her body and felt it must be covered when before, it didn't matter. Nakedness didn't seem unnatural prior to becoming knowledgeable. She no longer experienced the contented state of mind. Instead she was always discontented and this discontent spread to Adam as well and they both became sad humans at this point.
It can be argued the Bible itself is a form of knowledge and just by reading it, one becomes knowledgeable, so how can knowledge be a sin?
According to God, the first sin was when Eve was tempted by the Serpent, or dragon. She became knowledgeable afterward and awareness followed. No longer was she like a wild animal. She began to resemble a human being with human needs like shelter and agriculture. She became aware of her body and felt it must be covered when before, it didn't matter. Nakedness didn't seem unnatural prior to becoming knowledgeable. She no longer experienced the contented state of mind. Instead she was always discontented and this discontent spread to Adam as well and they both became sad humans at this point.
It can be argued the Bible itself is a form of knowledge and just by reading it, one becomes knowledgeable, so how can knowledge be a sin?
Before the Fall, Adam & Eve were not just like animals. According to Genesis 1:26-28, they were already superior to the animals, given the work of subduing the earth and having dominion over the animals.
26 Then God said, “Let us make man[h] in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
27
So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” (ESV)
The sin was not the pursuit of knowledge, though in this instance the sin involved a pursuit of knowledge. The sin was the attempted usurping of God's authority. This was done by the serpent (and, really, started in Heaven before Lucifer was banished) and continued by Eve, then Adam and on to today. The desire to "become like God" indicated a dissatisfaction they had of being submissive creatures before their Creator. The root of all sin is pride.
Created in God's image.
You must mean mental image, right?
It would be too funny to see God with both a dick and breasts.
So if created in God's mental image, was God also rather stupid?
You also indicate that pride is a sin. Was God sinning when he indicated he was proud of Jesus?
In him I am well pleased is the term used If I recall.
When you take pride in your family or work, are you sinning?
If not please explain what you mean by n God's image.
Regards
DL
In the image of God as in being able to reason and be creative. We are definitely vastly different from animals in these areas. Even if animals have these ability to a limited extent, human beings have far superior skills. These skills are what enable us, ultimately, to have dominion over the earth.
I also want to say that by dominion, I do not think that gives humans a free pass to selfishly harm the earth. I see it more as "environmental management." We have done a bad job of it, in many ways, and a brilliant job in others.
Maybe I should say "unmerited pride." When one is a subordinate, it is not proper to have pride as if one is the superior. That is a usurpation of authority. Pride in one's work or being pleased with one's family is not unmerited. Thinking too highly of one's self is unmerited.
If there is a Higher Being, the creature must submit. To do otherwise is to exhibit "unmerited pride" and to rebel against the authority of the Higher Being.
13 Jun 2015, 9:18 am
nerdygirl wrote:
The tree was specifically of the knowledge of good and evil. I don't see how you can read into it that it was the tree of ALL KNOWLEDGE.
Adam & Eve knew shame after eating of the tree. They became aware of a guilty conscience.
You cannot assume that all other knowledge proceeded from this tree and would not have been learned elsewhere.
Good and Evil were just part of the package. Basically, when Eve ate from the forbidden tree, she became what we think of as human. Before, she was more like an animal. She didn't understand good and evil, and you can see this same thing in various mammals. They don't appear to understand it. They just exist and their lives revolve around surviving and reproducing, generating their species. Humans do the same to a certain extent, but since they ate from the tree of knowledge, according to this story, they experience so much more than other species and this includes pain and suffering. Humans tend to suffer from their conscience in ways other species are completely alien to and this has it's origin in the original sin in the Garden of Eden, if you take the story literally. Otherwise, it's just an allegory for what I explained above. Mankind became different from other species in the garden and seems to suffer from it. It's a way of explaining it. God wanted mankind to remain simple but was defied, hence, mankind will suffer. The knowledge is all knowledge, including conscience. It's the "advancement of mankind." It's everything that takes us out of nature and separates us from the other animals. How many chimpanzees will manufacture a computer then start typing on it? Humans really are different but they do share basic traits like the will to survive and generate their species, which, you could argue, are the natural, animal-like traits.
I think the moral of the story is humans will strive, they will continue on, it's just a part of them to be this way so as a side effect we will have depression and anxiety. We will experience life in a different way. We will ruminate and mope in ways that are not productive in the grand scheme of things. Pretty much, if you believe Darwin, we are here to simply survive and reproduce. I think humans step outside the theory of Evolution though, and that can be explained by the Garden of Eden story, too. We step outside of that because of our minds. We have more control over our own evolution than other animals have over theirs and we can stop ourselves from evolving or we can cause ourselves to evolve in a different way than other animals who are more at the mercy of nature.
Another way of interpreting that story is from an evolutionary standpoint. Nothing in the Bible disputes science. It pretty much says we are here to be scientific. You can never erase what Adam and Eve did. So, all these folks who hate science and education in the name of the Bible are interpreting from a very narrow standpoint. We are pretty much destined to be what we are, but one question that does arise, can we actually do as good or better job as nature (God) or will it doom us because we simply cannot replace that natural evolution? You could say evolution is a form of the creator, which, all the creator is is the forces of how we came into existence. They allowed us to come into existence. That's the mystical formula and you never find it in a book and I think that's what these Jewish mystics knew long ago so they warn against concrete forms and idols. Books and words are concrete forms and to be so entranced by a book is to stray from the mystery of God. It was meant to be a mystery, hence you are commanded to not worship concrete forms.
Last edited by ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo on 13 Jun 2015, 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
nerdygirl
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13 Jun 2015, 9:29 am
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
nerdygirl wrote:
The tree was specifically of the knowledge of good and evil. I don't see how you can read into it that it was the tree of ALL KNOWLEDGE.
Adam & Eve knew shame after eating of the tree. They became aware of a guilty conscience.
You cannot assume that all other knowledge proceeded from this tree and would not have been learned elsewhere.
Good and Evil were just part of the package. Basically, when Eve ate from the forbidden tree, she became what we think of as human. Before, she was more like an animal. She didn't understand good and evil, and you can see this same thing in various mammals. They don't appear to understand it. They just exist and their lives revolve around surviving and reproducing, generating their species. Humans do the same to a certain extent, but since they ate from the tree of knowledge, according to this story, they experience so much more than other species and this includes pain and suffering. Humans tend to suffer from their conscience in ways other species are completely alien to and this has it's origin in the original sin in the Garden of Eden, if you take the story literally. Otherwise, it's just an allegory for what I explained above. Mankind became different from other species in the garden and seems to suffer from it. It's a way of explaining it. God wanted mankind to remain simple but was defied, hence, mankind will suffer. The knowledge is all knowledge, including conscience. It's the "advancement of mankind." It's everything that takes us out of nature and separates us from the other animals. How many chimpanzees will manufacture a computer then start typing on it? Humans really are different but they do share basic traits like the will to survive and generate their species, which, you could argue, are the natural, animal-like traits.
I think the moral of the story is humans will strive, they will continue on, it's just a part of them to be this way so as a side effect we will have depression and anxiety. We will experience life in a different way. We will ruminate and mope in ways that are not productive in the grand scheme of things. Pretty much, if you believe Darwin, we are here to simply survive and reproduce. I think humans step outside the theory of Evolution though, and that can be explained by the Garden of Eden story, too. We step outside of that because of our minds. We have more control over our own evolution than other animals have over theirs and we can stop ourselves from evolving or we can cause ourselves to evolve in a different way than other animals who are more at the mercy of nature.
Your argument would make more sense if God had not given the command to have dominion over the earth BEFORE the Fall. The fact that the command came before the Fall indicates that humans *already* had uniqueness (made in the image of God, unlike the animals that were not) that allowed them to fulfill this responsibility.
You may read the Genesis account as allegorical, but your explanation doesn't explain all the details of the text.
13 Jun 2015, 9:35 am
nerdygirl wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
nerdygirl wrote:
The tree was specifically of the knowledge of good and evil. I don't see how you can read into it that it was the tree of ALL KNOWLEDGE.
Adam & Eve knew shame after eating of the tree. They became aware of a guilty conscience.
You cannot assume that all other knowledge proceeded from this tree and would not have been learned elsewhere.
Good and Evil were just part of the package. Basically, when Eve ate from the forbidden tree, she became what we think of as human. Before, she was more like an animal. She didn't understand good and evil, and you can see this same thing in various mammals. They don't appear to understand it. They just exist and their lives revolve around surviving and reproducing, generating their species. Humans do the same to a certain extent, but since they ate from the tree of knowledge, according to this story, they experience so much more than other species and this includes pain and suffering. Humans tend to suffer from their conscience in ways other species are completely alien to and this has it's origin in the original sin in the Garden of Eden, if you take the story literally. Otherwise, it's just an allegory for what I explained above. Mankind became different from other species in the garden and seems to suffer from it. It's a way of explaining it. God wanted mankind to remain simple but was defied, hence, mankind will suffer. The knowledge is all knowledge, including conscience. It's the "advancement of mankind." It's everything that takes us out of nature and separates us from the other animals. How many chimpanzees will manufacture a computer then start typing on it? Humans really are different but they do share basic traits like the will to survive and generate their species, which, you could argue, are the natural, animal-like traits.
I think the moral of the story is humans will strive, they will continue on, it's just a part of them to be this way so as a side effect we will have depression and anxiety. We will experience life in a different way. We will ruminate and mope in ways that are not productive in the grand scheme of things. Pretty much, if you believe Darwin, we are here to simply survive and reproduce. I think humans step outside the theory of Evolution though, and that can be explained by the Garden of Eden story, too. We step outside of that because of our minds. We have more control over our own evolution than other animals have over theirs and we can stop ourselves from evolving or we can cause ourselves to evolve in a different way than other animals who are more at the mercy of nature.
Your argument would make more sense if God had not given the command to have dominion over the earth BEFORE the Fall. The fact that the command came before the Fall indicates that humans *already* had uniqueness (made in the image of God, unlike the animals that were not) that allowed them to fulfill this responsibility.
You may read the Genesis account as allegorical, but your explanation doesn't explain all the details of the text.
Maybe it just means humans are destined to have control over the earth. Seems to be the case. We do have dominion but you cannot deny it's because of our knowledge, not because of our physical strength. Humans are quite weak compared to predatory species and would lose in a battle without special innovation. And I don't get into the text the way fundies do because I don't believe in worshiping text. I believe in dialogue and discussion with the living. A book, in essence, is a dead thing unless you keep editing and editing. I do not take the creation myth literally and I know from experience, that is an outright heresy to fundies but hey, Eve ate from the tree of knowledge so I don't have to take it literally. I am here to think about the world around me.
