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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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03 Jul 2015, 10:03 am

After the shooting at the AM Emmanuel Church in Charleston, South Carolina, white pride is being scrutinized and maligned, seen as a bad thing that can lead to racism and violence. If "white pride" can lead to violence, seems logical "black pride," "yellow pride," "red pride," or "brown pride," or any other way you want to label pride in how one looks or culture, could too.

June was gay pride month and although gays have struggled and are still struggling obtaining rights, this morning I started thinking about gay pride month in the same way I would white or black pride month, although we do have a black history month in February. So I wonder, is it really a good idea to have a gay pride month? When you think about it in terms of white pride and how that goes...it just seems illogical to have any kind of pride month EXCEPT a "Human Pride Month" because that's what we all really are. We are humans.

All this talk about division lately...think of ALL the ways we divide ourselves into groups that exclude. Right now the Confederate Flag is under attack and on the way out, but what is the core issue? It's division and exclusion. When we define ourselves by our differences and feeling proud we are "this way" and not "that way," we inadvertently promote this culture of division, and the feeling, "glad I am this way instead of like you." Is it such a great culture to promote?

Why not say, "I am proud to be alive and living on earth?" "I am proud I have been given the rare opportunity to experience this phenomena called life at the same time as you!"



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03 Jul 2015, 12:22 pm

I've gotten serious backlash for posting this line of thought on Facebook (lost like 20+ "friends")

But I agree. It only serves to divide. If one can't do something, then why should others be able to? If one can, why not others? Isn't this sort of segregation what got us here in the first place?

People don't want equality, they just want the power to shift. They want revenge/vengeance, they want to make those who they think cause suffering to suffer. And if someone is in any sort of societal power position, they are the enemy, even if they really aren't in any position of power.

And me wanting everyone to be treated equally is racist, homophobic, and sexist.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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03 Jul 2015, 12:32 pm

kamiyu910 wrote:
I've gotten serious backlash for posting this line of thought on Facebook (lost like 20+ "friends")

But I agree. It only serves to divide. If one can't do something, then why should others be able to? If one can, why not others? Isn't this sort of segregation what got us here in the first place?

People don't want equality, they just want the power to shift. They want revenge/vengeance, they want to make those who they think cause suffering to suffer. And if someone is in any sort of societal power position, they are the enemy, even if they really aren't in any position of power.

And me wanting everyone to be treated equally is racist, homophobic, and sexist.


This is why I was very careful how I worded my post to not give anyone the impression that I am homophobic or racist because it's so easy to appear that way just by approaching this topic. I am for civil rights for all humans and seeing core issues instead of just fragments. Like marriage equality, for example. Most humans have this need to marry and have a family. That is the core issue among all human beings. They have this in common. Their sexuality might be a difference but the core human needs remain the same and will never change in 99.99% of humans. Celebrate what you share, instead of what you don't. Most won't see it that way though because human nature tends to strike a balance between including and excluding. I do the same but not about civil rights which I believe should be granted to all.



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03 Jul 2015, 3:23 pm

With regard to majority pride, a friend of mine put it most succinctly:

"When you are in first place in Mario Cart you don't get the blue shell."



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03 Jul 2015, 4:32 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
With regard to majority pride, a friend of mine put it most succinctly:

"When you are in first place in Mario Cart you don't get the blue shell."


But we want equality, which basically means no one is in first place. Saying someone can't have something because they're in first place isn't equality. I don't want anyone to have any special privilege or to be put down just for being who they are.


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03 Jul 2015, 4:53 pm

Why *not* have a human pride month? A month in which we celebrate all the awesome things humans have done, like going into space, destroying smallpox, building great works of art... along with the much more numerous but smaller things we do every single day.

So I ask, what is humanities vision?


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03 Jul 2015, 5:16 pm

Magneto wrote:
Why *not* have a human pride month? A month in which we celebrate all the awesome things humans have done, like going into space, destroying smallpox, building great works of art... along with the much more numerous but smaller things we do every single day.

So I ask, what is humanities vision?


I like that idea, of a human pride month, etc. Combine us all, leave no one out. My vision is for no one to be treated differently for who they are, what they look like, or for being "weird." Absolutely impossible, with how it's ingrained in our very being, but we can get close. And why should we not work towards a more equal treatment?


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03 Jul 2015, 5:31 pm

There is no need for "white pride" because "white contributions" to society are everywhere. Everyone can name white inventors, white scholars, white authors, white explorers ... However, name some black ones , name some Hispanic ones, name some Asian ones ... When a white person talks about "white pride" I get the impression that the person is insecure.

"Black pride", "Brown pride", "Yellow Pride", "Red Pride" come across as "hey, we did something too!"

"Gay pride" is a different thing; it is not about accomplishments. It's trying to unshame something. It would be akin to "Welfare pride", or "Teen pregnancy pride", "Dropped out of School pride" , "Pedophilia pride" ...

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Why not say, "I am proud to be alive and living on earth?" "I am proud I have been given the rare opportunity to experience this phenomena called life at the same time as you!


Because people will supposedly feel like losers.

The non-white racial groups will supposedly feel like they ancestry contributed nothing, and gay people will supposedly have internalized shame.



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03 Jul 2015, 6:58 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
There is no need for "white pride" because "white contributions" to society are everywhere. Everyone can name white inventors, white scholars, white authors, white explorers ... However, name some black ones , name some Hispanic ones, name some Asian ones ... When a white person talks about "white pride" I get the impression that the person is insecure.

"Black pride", "Brown pride", "Yellow Pride", "Red Pride" come across as "hey, we did something too!"

"Gay pride" is a different thing; it is not about accomplishments. It's trying to unshame something. It would be akin to "Welfare pride", or "Teen pregnancy pride", "Dropped out of School pride" , "Pedophilia pride" ...

Quote:
Why not say, "I am proud to be alive and living on earth?" "I am proud I have been given the rare opportunity to experience this phenomena called life at the same time as you!


Because people will supposedly feel like losers.

The non-white racial groups will supposedly feel like they ancestry contributed nothing, and gay people will supposedly have internalized shame.



You could say the same thing about any kind of pride. White pride is about white people feeling insecure about minorities. All of it is about combating feelings of shame. So how about human pride? This way everyone can feel proud all at the same time and no one would feel left out.

Pride is not the same thing as, name something a person of so and so color/culture/ethnic group has done. That's more like history. Notice Black History month isn't called Black Pride month?



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03 Jul 2015, 8:21 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
So how about human pride? This way everyone can feel proud all at the same time and no one would feel left out.

During the "Black Lives Matter" marches, a college professor sent out an email that changed "Black Lives Matter" to "All lives Matter", and she received a flurry of angry emails in response.

So do you mean to replace the existing pride recognition? If not , then I am OK with it, just add it to the list. However, if yes, then you will receive hate that you mean to marginalize minority groups just like the above mentioned professor.

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Pride is not the same thing as, name something a person of so and so color/culture/ethnic group has done. That's more like history. Notice Black History month isn't called Black Pride month?

But "white pride" must be based on ancestral "white accomplishments" ? Pride must be based on some reason to be proud?



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03 Jul 2015, 8:46 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
So how about human pride? This way everyone can feel proud all at the same time and no one would feel left out.

During the "Black Lives Matter" marches, a college professor sent out an email that changed "Black Lives Matter" to "All lives Matter", and she received a flurry of angry emails in response.

So do you mean to replace the existing pride recognition? If not , then I am OK with it, just add it to the list. However, if yes, then you will receive hate that you mean to marginalize minority groups just like the above mentioned professor.

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Pride is not the same thing as, name something a person of so and so color/culture/ethnic group has done. That's more like history. Notice Black History month isn't called Black Pride month?

But "white pride" must be based on ancestral "white accomplishments" ? Pride must be based on some reason to be proud?


It's about feeling like they have accomplished something when everyone is against them. They accomplish despite the odds they wouldn't or they sacrifice a great deal, like Martin Luther King Jr. This gives a reason to be proud but everyone should feel proud of having the opportunity to experience life as a human because it is rare in the universe. We aren't such a rare event on earth but if you take our solar system in account, we become a rare species. If there aren't any species with our dna structure in the universe, we would be unique everywhere. It's not just the color of your skin, appearance, sexuality or your culture that gives a reason in itself. It's the fact you are a human being and given such a great opportunity to experience life.
In reality, an adult human who has sex isn't a big deal. Why do people make it into such an issue? That is something I never really understood. People always obsess on the strangest stuff. It's not just bigots that make it such an issue, it's nearly everyone.

It's true all lives matter but black lives matter was in response to specific incidents that made it look like they do not, as in, instances where unarmed blacks are killed by police. They were saying to police, you see us as nothing but blacks but we are alive and human like you.



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03 Jul 2015, 8:52 pm

Would all the foregoing criticisms of pride movements apply to Autistic Pride, too?

Autistic Self Advocacy Network defines Autistic Pride as "...when Autistic people are proud of their Autistic identity and happy to be who they are. Autistic Pride is when Autistic people believe that autism doesn’t need to be fixed or cured for Autistics to be happy and live good lives. Autistic Pride rejects the idea that Autistics should be ashamed of being Autistic. Autistic pride is similar to gay pride, or being proud of your heritage or another part of your identity" ( http://www.autismacceptancemonth.com/re ... stic-pride ).

Under the First Amendment to the Constitution for the United States of America, anyone can have pride in their self, their accomplishments, their families, their friends and their opinions. If the world can have Black Pride, Brown Pride, LGBT Pride, Disability Pride, Jewish Pride, Muslim Pride, Poly Pride and Trans* Pride movements (and it should), it can also have other pride movements, can't it? Let it be a popularity contest where the better-supported movements thrive and the less-supported movements whither. But, they all have an equal chance.


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03 Jul 2015, 9:06 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
Would all the foregoing criticisms of pride movements apply to Autistic Pride, too?

Autistic Self Advocacy Network defines Autistic Pride as "...when Autistic people are proud of their Autistic identity and happy to be who they are. Autistic Pride is when Autistic people believe that autism doesn’t need to be fixed or cured for Autistics to be happy and live good lives. Autistic Pride rejects the idea that Autistics should be ashamed of being Autistic. Autistic pride is similar to gay pride, or being proud of your heritage or another part of your identity" ( http://www.autismacceptancemonth.com/re ... stic-pride ).

Under the First Amendment to the Constitution for the United States of America, anyone can have pride in their self, their accomplishments, their families, their friends and their opinions. If the world can have Black Pride, Brown Pride, LGBT Pride, Disability Pride, Jewish Pride, Muslim Pride, Poly Pride and Trans* Pride movements (and it should), it can also have other pride movements, can't it? Let it be a popularity contest where the better-supported movements thrive and the less-supported movements whither. But, they all have an equal chance.


White Pride is seen as divisionary. So how does this apply to all the other forms of pride? Is it only White Pride that is divisionary while all the others aren't? Whenever someone talks about White Pride or promotes this, they get called racist. It's thought of as racist ideology. So how do you reconcile this? And why is it we cannot be proud of our humanity. Humanism and Humanity as a collective is what gets shamed the most at the moment. We focus on how we are different and then say humanism is an unreliable standard because it's about being a human and focuses on what we have in common.

I am going to take the initiative and say I am proud to be human.



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03 Jul 2015, 9:23 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
White Pride is seen as divisionary. So how does this apply to all the other forms of pride? Is it only White Pride that is divisionary while all the others aren't? Whenever someone talks about White Pride or promotes this, they get called racist. It's thought of as racist ideology. So how do you reconcile this? And why is it we cannot be proud of our humanity. Humanism and Humanity as a collective is what gets shamed the most at the moment. We focus on how we are different and then say humanism is an unreliable standard because it's about being a human and focuses on what we have in common.

I am going to take the initiative and say I am proud to be human.

That is cool, but I believe that most individuals like to take pride in their accomplishments or their ancestors' accomplishments. I am vaguely proud of my race because of what others within my race (including my ancestors) have accomplished. I enjoy my genetic connection to the Celtic and Viking Europeans and their culture. Even there, any contributions that I have added to my ancestors' are merely contemporaneous by comparison.


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03 Jul 2015, 9:32 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
White Pride is seen as divisionary. So how does this apply to all the other forms of pride? Is it only White Pride that is divisionary while all the others aren't? Whenever someone talks about White Pride or promotes this, they get called racist. It's thought of as racist ideology. So how do you reconcile this? And why is it we cannot be proud of our humanity. Humanism and Humanity as a collective is what gets shamed the most at the moment. We focus on how we are different and then say humanism is an unreliable standard because it's about being a human and focuses on what we have in common.

I am going to take the initiative and say I am proud to be human.

That is cool, but I believe that most individuals like to take pride in their accomplishments or their ancestors' accomplishments. I am vaguely proud of my race because of what others within my race (including my ancestors) have accomplished. I enjoy my genetic connection to the Celtic and Viking Europeans and their culture. Even there, any contributions that I have added to my ancestors' are merely contemporaneous by comparison.



A sense of inner pride is different than a pride movement.

Let me give you an example - suppose you see a festival called Black Pride 2015 in your community and you, being a white guy, would automatically feel like you wouldn't belong in such a festival. You would feel intimidated. This is how blacks feel about something called White Pride. They feel excluded. Right now the Confederate flag is being shunned by Nascar because they don't want blacks to feel like they aren't welcome at the races. If you are trying to make everyone feel welcome, you would need to shun names like White Pride, Black Pride or anything that separates people from one another so one group doesn't feel welcome.



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03 Jul 2015, 9:51 pm

Maybe a Hairless Ground Ape Awareness Day?

Other species driven to extinction,

Area of forests destroyed,

Fertile farm land turned to desert,

against the good,

Better methods of killing hairless ground apes,

Debt and garbage put on future generations,

We need to build Awareness so everyone is working toward a Cure.