Should there be a law against public institutions that lie f

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Grebels
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18 Jul 2015, 5:46 am

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If you'd like, Bishop, we can start a thread especially to discuss Gnosticism and it's place in history. You can then go ahead and give me a heaping list of "lies" to deal with. I encourage it. But don't be surprised if someone has the wherewithal to provide answers to all of your claims. Let's see whose false narrative this really is.


I've appreciated your debates with the atheists and would look forward to what you mention here. Forgive me though, I'd just sit and be a good lurker.

I come from a super fundie background. I once heard something like this preached: "We don't need no apologetics. God don't need no one apologising for 'im." I spent years trying to fit in. I think churches can get caught up with themselves when growth is the big thing. It's kind of missing the point.



ruveyn
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18 Jul 2015, 10:25 am

Absolutely Not!! !!

The only time lying should be actionable is

1. Commission of fraud where there is property or monetary loss

2. Lying under oath (perjury).

If uttering untruth were otherwise actionable, writers of fiction would be put in jail and promise breakers would be legally punished.



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18 Jul 2015, 10:28 am

GnosticBishop wrote:
Should there be a law against public institutions that lie for money?

Religions and many charitable organizations of all stripes make their revenues by lying to people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ9oBCLwwL0

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... endas.html

Should we help protect the gullible by eliminating all the fraud that is being passed off as religion and charity?

Those who do not believe the lies being sold by religions and charities are presently subsidize the tax exemptions and credits that religions and charities enjoy. What they save in taxes, non-believers and those who actually want to give to charities must fork up.

I am not what most would call a non-believer, I am a Gnostic Christian, but still resent my hard earned tax money being used to perpetuate what most know are lies. If you are a non-believer, or one who wants your charitable donations to actually be used for charity, I hope you feel the same and do not like being fleeced the way the gullible are.

There ought to be a law against institution like religions and bogus charities that live off of lying to the gullible.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... on-a-year/

Do you agree?

Regards
DL


You are talking about fraud. That is different from lying. With fraud there is an attempt and an intent to deceive with the purpose of getting money or assets under false pretenses.



GnosticBishop
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26 Jul 2015, 2:56 pm

Janissy wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
[

Nope. I haven't heard any of that. Or to be more precise: I haven't said any of that. You're conversing with a Freewill Baptist minister. So why don't you take a little step back with "shove theology down your throat" and listen to how vindictive you sound. Quit dehumanizing us.


When you stop knowingly lying to gullible people on my dime, I will.

Regards
DL


As a staunch, perhaps even strident, atheist I have argued a lot with religious people and theists here. But I've never said they were lying because they aren't. They disagree with me on pretty much everything having to do with God and I think they are wrong about a lot of things (such as those who hold that evolution doesn't and didn't happen). (Theists; note that I didn't say wrong about God, just wrong about evolution. God isn't knowable. Evolution is.) But being wrong or disagreeing or believing different things aren't lies.

'Lie' has a very specific meaning. For something to be a lie, the speaker must not believe what they are saying and saying it purely to deceive.

You are making the rather bold claim that priest/pastors/ministers/reverends/rabbis/imams (have I missed any?) are just as atheist as I am but are saying otherwise to their congregation to get donations and maintain tax exempt status.


Correct. They beliefs as little as you do and lie about their beliefs. Their own words condemn them. They tell you how unknowable God is then start reaming off all that they know of the unknowable.

Any decent court would rule against them.

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DL



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26 Jul 2015, 3:03 pm

Lukecash12 wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
[

Nope. I haven't heard any of that. Or to be more precise: I haven't said any of that. You're conversing with a Freewill Baptist minister. So why don't you take a little step back with "shove theology down your throat" and listen to how vindictive you sound. Quit dehumanizing us.


When you stop knowingly lying to gullible people on my dime, I will.

Regards
DL


Oh, it's "on your dime", is it? Not that you were curious enough or sensitive enough to ask and appreciate, but I never took a vow of poverty. My livelihood doesn't come from the offering plate. In fact my church operates a lot like a soup kitchen. So you've succeeded only in dehumanizing yourself by spewing such ignorance.

Would you know what love looked like if it was right in front of you? You assume I'm in some kind of judgment seat, dependent on the gullibility of others, yet I'm in no way dependent or interested in judging people. What I do is love people to the best of my ability and knowledge. You seem have this misguided concept that everyone who is a relatively more orthodox Christian must be part of some authoritarian system. Well you can go ahead and ask my congregation if they've been coerced or told what they ought to believe, "or else".


What is dehumanizing is the lies the churches and priests put out there every time they open their mouths.

What is dehumanizing is people giving up their dominion over themselves based on the lies you have fed them since they were just children.

Shame on all lying priests.

Regards
DL



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26 Jul 2015, 3:05 pm

Fnord wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Fnord wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
[...]Researchers and other recipients of charitable donations should not be penalized because of the bad apples in the barrel. Better to clean out the bad apples and let the hungry at the good apples.
And what registered charity passes along 100% of what it collects to those it claims to represent?
None that I know of. What does that have to do with the issue of charities that give next to nothing?
Everything. Fraud is fraud, whether it's taking 1% or 100% (or anything more than 0%) from the money allegedly collected to benefit people in need.

Just like in Organized Religion, the people who run Organized Charities are scamming donors into making donations and getting rich off of the "Administrative Costs" they skim from what they collect.


No argument. Thanks.

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DL



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26 Jul 2015, 3:07 pm

Raptor wrote:
A fool and his money are soon parted.
No, I don't believe in passing laws to protect people who are bound to f**k themselves from f*****g themselves.


I see that you follow the golden rule. Not.

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DL



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26 Jul 2015, 3:15 pm

Lukecash12 wrote:
If you'd like, Bishop, we can start a thread especially to discuss Gnosticism and it's place in history. You can then go ahead and give me a heaping list of "lies" to deal with. I encourage it. But don't be surprised if someone has the wherewithal to provide answers to all of your claims. Let's see whose false narrative this really is.


Gnostic Christianity sells a myth that is designed to have people find and open their third eye, in the Eastern sense. That is all we sell and science has no fault with this.

If you want lies then jut think of talking serpents and donkeys and the curse of 72 virgins.

As to Gnostic Christian history. It is short and tells us more about Christian and their evil history of helping usher in the Dark Ages and Inquisition than our good one. Are you sure you want to talk of Gnostic Christian history?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02cia ... =PLCBF574D

Regards
DL



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26 Jul 2015, 3:19 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Absolutely Not!! ! !

The only time lying should be actionable is

1. Commission of fraud where there is property or monetary loss

2. Lying under oath (perjury).

If uttering untruth were otherwise actionable, writers of fiction would be put in jail and promise breakers would be legally punished.


Writers of fiction do not try to pawn off their works as reality. Religion and charities do while knowing they are lying.

Regards
DL



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26 Jul 2015, 3:22 pm

ruveyn wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Should there be a law against public institutions that lie for money?

Religions and many charitable organizations of all stripes make their revenues by lying to people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ9oBCLwwL0

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... endas.html

Should we help protect the gullible by eliminating all the fraud that is being passed off as religion and charity?

Those who do not believe the lies being sold by religions and charities are presently subsidize the tax exemptions and credits that religions and charities enjoy. What they save in taxes, non-believers and those who actually want to give to charities must fork up.

I am not what most would call a non-believer, I am a Gnostic Christian, but still resent my hard earned tax money being used to perpetuate what most know are lies. If you are a non-believer, or one who wants your charitable donations to actually be used for charity, I hope you feel the same and do not like being fleeced the way the gullible are.

There ought to be a law against institution like religions and bogus charities that live off of lying to the gullible.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... on-a-year/

Do you agree?

Regards
DL


You are talking about fraud. That is different from lying. With fraud there is an attempt and an intent to deceive with the purpose of getting money or assets under false pretenses.


I was being kind. Those mentioned are attempting to deceive with the purpose of getting money or assets under false pretenses.

Regards
DL



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26 Jul 2015, 8:30 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
Raptor wrote:
A fool and his money are soon parted.
No, I don't believe in passing laws to protect people who are bound to f**k themselves from f*****g themselves.


I see that you follow the golden rule. Not.

Regards
DL


How, by not wanting to pass complex legislation to protect the stupid from thier own stupidity?


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26 Jul 2015, 10:34 pm

Raptor wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Raptor wrote:
A fool and his money are soon parted. No, I don't believe in passing laws to protect people who are bound to f**k themselves from f*****g themselves.
I see that you follow the golden rule. Not.
How, by not wanting to pass complex legislation to protect the stupid from thier own stupidity?
The Golden Rule goes something like: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"; so, if you believe that no legislation should be passed that would make your own stupidity illegal, then I see no fault in your belief that no legislation should be passed to make other people's stupidity illegal, either.

Cripes, if stupidity was illegal, then everybody would have done something to earn a criminal record at least once in their lifetimes!



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27 Jul 2015, 9:14 am

Raptor wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Raptor wrote:
A fool and his money are soon parted.
No, I don't believe in passing laws to protect people who are bound to f**k themselves from f*****g themselves.


I see that you follow the golden rule. Not.

Regards
DL


How, by not wanting to pass complex legislation to protect the stupid from thier own stupidity?


So you follow the golden rule only when it is simple to do so.

To bow out of your social duty to your fellow man when things get tough is a sign of a weak character.

Regards



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27 Jul 2015, 10:06 am

GnosticBishop wrote:
Raptor wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Raptor wrote:
A fool and his money are soon parted.
No, I don't believe in passing laws to protect people who are bound to f**k themselves from f*****g themselves.


I see that you follow the golden rule. Not.

Regards
DL


How, by not wanting to pass complex legislation to protect the stupid from thier own stupidity?


So you follow the golden rule only when it is simple to do so.

To bow out of your social duty to your fellow man when things get tough is a sign of a weak character.

Regards

Yeah, I'm really awful aint I?
Whatev
:roll:


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27 Jul 2015, 11:59 am

Raptor wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Raptor wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Raptor wrote:
A fool and his money are soon parted. No, I don't believe in passing laws to protect people who are bound to f**k themselves from f*****g themselves.
I see that you follow the golden rule. Not.
How, by not wanting to pass complex legislation to protect the stupid from thier own stupidity?
So you follow the golden rule only when it is simple to do so. To bow out of your social duty to your fellow man when things get tough is a sign of a weak character.
Yeah, I'm really awful aint I? Whatev
Careful there, Rappy! You've just been judge by One Who Is Holier Than Thou! Any moment now, you should be feeling an immense weight of guilt and shame, followed by a desperate urge to repent.

Any moment now ...

Any moment now ...

Will you hurry up?

:wink: