The KKK used the American Flag, originally..

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rvacountrysinger
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23 Jul 2015, 10:35 pm

Most people don't know that the Klan used the American flag as a symbol. Should we ban the American flag? It was used by the Klan in their marches. There are many pictures of them with "Old Glory". I don't understand all the attack against the Confederate Battle Flag- which is simply the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. It was not racist in of itself , nor part of the Democrats or Republicans. The flag is actually the cross of St. Andrew.

I have many ancestors who fought in the Confederacy. I don't use the flag much, but I don't think it should be banned. Its actually kind of a cool looking flag. Most people who fly the Confederate flag a lot, also are very patriotic and love America. They just also love their Southern heritage. And its not a bad thing.



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23 Jul 2015, 10:46 pm

Not only that but the flag of the United States was the flag of slavery for 80 years, the Confederacy existed barely 4 years. That was the flag the flew when we slaughtered the Indians, it wasn't the flag when we interned Japanese Americans, its the one on the side of the drone when we kill an entire family in Pakistan. The Confederacy is America, we cannot disown the south and try to pretend we don't share that stain. It's all the same, there was slavery in the north but all the was different was they didn't grow cotton in New England.



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23 Jul 2015, 10:52 pm

You're correct - prior to the 1940's, what we recognize today as the 'confederate battle flag' wasn't much used after the War of Southern Impudence.

It was only after the Brown v. Board of Education decision, and the integration of southern schools literally at gunpoint, that racist southern politicians began displaying it as a symbol of "states rights" and "southern heritage" and referring to it as the "confederate battle flag".

I don't think many people are arguing that it should be banned.

A few major retailers have declined to sell it. A few large marketplaces have declined to facilitate its sale.

It is, however, pretty inappropriate to fly a flag representing a failed, illegal recessionist insurgency conceived of to secure the further enslavement of black people over a government building.



blauSamstag
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23 Jul 2015, 10:58 pm

Some people say that displaying the confederate battle flag indicates your intention to marry a blood relative.

I think my friend who grew up in Tahlequah OK may have nailed it - just indicates that you're either a racist or a sore loser.

In either case i am heartily in favor of allowing private citizens to display it on private property.

Because it allows them to self-identify, and i don't have to figure out if they are good people or not.



Jacoby
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23 Jul 2015, 10:59 pm

blauSamstag wrote:

It is, however, pretty inappropriate to fly a flag representing a failed, illegal recessionist insurgency conceived of to secure the further enslavement of black people over a government building.


That is basically how the US came into existence

If you think the Confederate flag is "inappropriate" then so is the US flag and probably almost every flag that has ever flown in history, there are legitimate grievances against everybody.



Jacoby
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23 Jul 2015, 11:01 pm

They should change the name of the Democratic Party, how can they share the name of the party most associated with slavery?



blauSamstag
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23 Jul 2015, 11:05 pm

Jacoby wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:

It is, however, pretty inappropriate to fly a flag representing a failed, illegal recessionist insurgency conceived of to secure the further enslavement of black people over a government building.


That is basically how the US came into existence

If you think the Confederate flag is "inappropriate" then so is the US flag and probably almost every flag that has ever flown in history, there are legitimate grievances against everybody.


Not really, no.

It is as appropriate to fly the stars & bars over your state capitol building as it is to fly the hammer & sickle, or maybe sabocat, over the department of labor.

They mean specific things that are inappropriate, rather than a whole range of things that are a mix of good, bad, ugly, and other.



blauSamstag
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23 Jul 2015, 11:06 pm

Jacoby wrote:
They should change the name of the Democratic Party, how can they share the name of the party most associated with slavery?


The democratic party changed in the 40's. In the south, it literally changed. Southern democrats formed the Dixiecrat party. They later merged into the RNC.

The south hasn't changed.



Jacoby
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23 Jul 2015, 11:17 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
They should change the name of the Democratic Party, how can they share the name of the party most associated with slavery?


The democratic party changed in the 40's. In the south, it literally changed. Southern democrats formed the Dixiecrat party. They later merged into the RNC.

The south hasn't changed.


Context doesn't mean anything in 2015, it's just feelings now. The Democrats are the party that enslaved and oppressed black people, why does the modern party want to keep that name?



blauSamstag
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24 Jul 2015, 8:17 am

Jacoby wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
They should change the name of the Democratic Party, how can they share the name of the party most associated with slavery?


The democratic party changed in the 40's. In the south, it literally changed. Southern democrats formed the Dixiecrat party. They later merged into the RNC.

The south hasn't changed.


Context doesn't mean anything in 2015, it's just feelings now. The Democrats are the party that enslaved and oppressed black people, why does the modern party want to keep that name?


Context means plenty. As for the names of our political parties, i am more concerned with the way that the meanings have been twisted over time, and the fact that both of them are right wing these days.

You keep making these fallacious arguments where you equate something that has a very narrow definition and application with something else that has a very broad definition and application.

Frankly it's stupid and only sounds clever to people who are already inside your echo chamber.



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24 Jul 2015, 8:26 am

rvacountrysinger wrote:
Most people don't know that the Klan used the American flag as a symbol. Should we ban the American flag? It was used by the Klan in their marches. There are many pictures of them with "Old Glory". I don't understand all the attack against the Confederate Battle Flag- which is simply the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. It was not racist in of itself , nor part of the Democrats or Republicans. The flag is actually the cross of St. Andrew.

I have many ancestors who fought in the Confederacy. I don't use the flag much, but I don't think it should be banned. Its actually kind of a cool looking flag. Most people who fly the Confederate flag a lot, also are very patriotic and love America. They just also love their Southern heritage. And its not a bad thing.



No because the US flag is a national flag. The Confederate flag is not. Two different kettles of fish. The US flag represents an entire nation and everyone within while the Confederate flag only truly represents something that occurred historically so you cannot compare the two unless the US gets a new flag design, dumps the one it currently has, and a splinter group adopts it for some reason.



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24 Jul 2015, 8:42 am

blauSamstag wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
They should change the name of the Democratic Party, how can they share the name of the party most associated with slavery?


The democratic party changed in the 40's. In the south, it literally changed. Southern democrats formed the Dixiecrat party. They later merged into the RNC.

The south hasn't changed.


Context doesn't mean anything in 2015, it's just feelings now. The Democrats are the party that enslaved and oppressed black people, why does the modern party want to keep that name?


Context means plenty. As for the names of our political parties, i am more concerned with the way that the meanings have been twisted over time, and the fact that both of them are right wing these days.

You keep making these fallacious arguments where you equate something that has a very narrow definition and application with something else that has a very broad definition and application.

Frankly it's stupid and only sounds clever to people who are already inside your echo chamber.


I think its all stupid too, demonize what they did that was evil not a flag. Context should matter but it doesn't, this whole Confederate flag fiasco came about because of a horrific crime from sick individual. That's literally all we got out of it, we don't try to examine motive we don't try to think of ways to prevent it. We attack a flag because it triggers some feelings for some people. Don't display it, I don't care but lets not pretend that context matters now. I only follow the logic given to me, if you ban the Confederate flag okay but it doesn't make a lot of sense to share the name of the political party most associated with slavery and white supremacy.

A lot of white people have this habit of trying to bring other whites down or to put themselves above them as "good whites", they can't be racist they can't be responsible if you're willing to throw one of your "own" under the bus. That's how I see that line of thinking, look at how not racist I am! There is real racism that exists today, there is systematic racist laws and policies in place but we talk about a flag, its pathetic.



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24 Jul 2015, 8:44 am

blauSamstag wrote:
Some people say that displaying the confederate battle flag indicates your intention to marry a blood relative.

I think my friend who grew up in Tahlequah OK may have nailed it - just indicates that you're either a racist or a sore loser.

In either case i am heartily in favor of allowing private citizens to display it on private property.

Because it allows them to self-identify, and i don't have to figure out if they are good people or not.

This^^^^

It doesn't belong on our government property.

Private citizens, however, have the right to display it all they want to show just how repugnant and dumb they are. It's basically a "avoid me. I'm an racist, inbred shitstain" sign. You know right off the bat to stay far away.



kraftiekortie
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24 Jul 2015, 8:44 am

It doesn't matter that the KKK used the American flag.

The KKK appropriated it. It's not the flag's fault!

What flag an idiot organization uses is irrelevant as far as the flag is concerned.



Jacoby
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24 Jul 2015, 9:01 am

The largest incarnation of the KKK was back during Woodrow Wilson's presidency into the 20s which is the one everybody remembers from the fancy costumes and pointed hats, this was the Klan that spread all around country and why there are KKK chapters outside of the former Confederacy. They draped themselves in the American flag and were very strongly nativist opposing Jews, Catholics, obviously blacks, pretty much anybody that wasn't WASP male.

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