Who do you support for the Democratic nomination?

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Who do you support for the Democratic nomination?
Hillary Clinton 6%  6%  [ 3 ]
Bernie Sanders 57%  57%  [ 31 ]
Joe Biden 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Jim Webb 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Martin O'Malley 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Lincoln Chafee 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Not voting Democrat 35%  35%  [ 19 ]
Total votes : 54

cathylynn
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15 Aug 2015, 9:33 pm

Raptor wrote:
glebel wrote:
Raptor wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Bernie Sanders has a perverted philosophy that wealth should be transferred from earners to non-earners.

His solutions -- oh, and how original -- are to raise taxes. Likely, his solution for *everything* is to raise taxes.

His supporters openly carry around "Robin Hood" signs acknowledging this.

Supporter 1: "Hey let's go rip off someone with money!".
Supporter 2: "Yeah, thievery is fun! And Bernie makes it sound moral too!"

Image


You'll find it's the ones embracing the "my brother's keeper" mentality to not to be the keepers but the ones being kept. They have a vested interested in taking from the haves to give to the havenots (all too often derelicts and slackers).

I think that this is slightly harsh, but there is a lot of truth in this.

Harsh or not, it's the way it is so and there's no point candy coating it.

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If everyone only took what they needed, and produced what they could,socialism might work. You know, " From each according to his ability, to each according to his need ". Until these 'progressives' get on board with this, their programs will never work.

Socialism won't fly in this country and I wouldn't want to even try. More poor people have become rich here than anywhere else because capitalism does reward. Not always but enough to call it good enough. It's the sheer laziness and the want to rob others of their earnings that I have an issue with.

raising the minimum wage is one of his main planks. that's not stealing. it's stopping stealing of labor for wages that no one can subsist on. we already have substantial socialism: roads, police, medicare (wildly popular) are examples. i think we can tolerate a bit more. capitalism works best when it is well-regulated.



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15 Aug 2015, 9:41 pm

Raptor wrote:
More poor people have become rich here than anywhere else because capitalism does reward.

Wrong, like most everything else you say, but this one is so baldly, measurably wrong that it's comical. Socio-economic mobility is lower in America than in almost any other developed nation (Britain does slightly worse).


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15 Aug 2015, 9:43 pm

Quote:
The solution for college?
Not that I believe in it, but if the guvmint's gonna have a hand in college why not cap the costs? Then it would be much more affordable. It's certainly a more palatable alternative than giving money away to those that havent earned it (and many never will :roll:).

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The solution for Healthcare :
Same as for college.

Quote:
The solution for Climate Crisis:
Dress warmer (or cooler depending on how the climate's "changing" :roll: that year).

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The solution for poverty:
Create a "climate" that's more free enterprise friendly. Only a fool (or a derelict) believes more taxes are the answer.

Quote:
The solution for jobs :
Same as for poverty

Quote:
The solution for education:
Public K-12 education can be taxpayer funded. The tax dollars going to that would be quite sufficient if we would scrape out the co$tly layer$ of bureaucracy between the money and the end user.

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The solution for infrastructure:
Same as for K-12 education.


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cathylynn
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15 Aug 2015, 9:53 pm

many more jobs have been created under the more regulations and higher taxes administrations of democrats than fewer regulations and lower tax administrations of republicans.



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15 Aug 2015, 9:58 pm

cathylynn wrote:
Raptor wrote:
glebel wrote:
Raptor wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Bernie Sanders has a perverted philosophy that wealth should be transferred from earners to non-earners.

His solutions -- oh, and how original -- are to raise taxes. Likely, his solution for *everything* is to raise taxes.

His supporters openly carry around "Robin Hood" signs acknowledging this.

Supporter 1: "Hey let's go rip off someone with money!".
Supporter 2: "Yeah, thievery is fun! And Bernie makes it sound moral too!"

Image


You'll find it's the ones embracing the "my brother's keeper" mentality to not to be the keepers but the ones being kept. They have a vested interested in taking from the haves to give to the havenots (all too often derelicts and slackers).

I think that this is slightly harsh, but there is a lot of truth in this.

Harsh or not, it's the way it is so and there's no point candy coating it.

Quote:
If everyone only took what they needed, and produced what they could,socialism might work. You know, " From each according to his ability, to each according to his need ". Until these 'progressives' get on board with this, their programs will never work.

Socialism won't fly in this country and I wouldn't want to even try. More poor people have become rich here than anywhere else because capitalism does reward. Not always but enough to call it good enough. It's the sheer laziness and the want to rob others of their earnings that I have an issue with.

raising the minimum wage is one of his main planks. that's not stealing.it's stopping stealing of labor for wages that no one can subsist on.

And retailers (and everyone else we have to pay for stuff and services) won't seize the golden opportunity to raise prices? Or are we going to tell them that they can't and waste resources policing them?

Quote:
we already have substantial socialism: roads, police, medicare (wildly popular) are examples. i think we can tolerate a bit more.

Quote:
so·cial·ism
ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/Submit
noun
a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
synonyms: leftism, welfarism; More
- policy or practice based on the political and economic theory of socialism.
synonyms: leftism, welfarism; More
- (in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of communism.

^ Nothing in there about cops and medicare.

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capitalism works best when it is well-regulated.

Regulated or throttled out of practical existence to the point that communism , ahem, I meant "socialism" is a seemingly viable solution?

Next?


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cathylynn
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15 Aug 2015, 10:03 pm

if mcdonalds paid its employees $15 per hour, the cost of a big mac would go up $.17. that's not a hardship, especially when one considers what we pay in food stamps to subsidize micky d.



cathylynn
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15 Aug 2015, 10:10 pm

if roads, police, and medicare aren't socialism, neither is medicare for all and free public college and bernie is not a socialist.



cathylynn
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15 Aug 2015, 10:13 pm

what we have now is socialism (corporate welfare) for the super rich and rugged individualism for the working poor.



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15 Aug 2015, 10:18 pm

cathylynn wrote:
if mcdonalds paid its employees $15 per hour, the cost of a big mac would go up $.17. that's not a hardship, especially when one considers what we pay in food stamps to subsidize micky d.


What about machines? You don't need to raise the price of burgers. You can fire 2/3 of the cashiers, replace them with kiosks, and raise the pay for the remaining workers.

Image



Last edited by LoveNotHate on 15 Aug 2015, 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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15 Aug 2015, 10:22 pm

cathylynn wrote:
if mcdonalds paid its employees $15 per hour, the cost of a big mac would go up $.17. that's not a hardship, especially when one considers what we pay in food stamps to subsidize micky d.

That wasn't what I was talking about but whatever..... :roll:


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cathylynn
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15 Aug 2015, 10:25 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
cathylynn wrote:
if mcdonalds paid its employees $15 per hour, the cost of a big mac would go up $.17. that's not a hardship, especially when one considers what we pay in food stamps to subsidize micky d.


What about machines? You don't need to raise the price of burgers. You can fire 2/3 of the cashiers, replace them with kiosks, and raise the pay for the remaining workers.

Image

gonna happen anyway, with or without wage increase.



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15 Aug 2015, 10:28 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
cathylynn wrote:
if mcdonalds paid its employees $15 per hour, the cost of a big mac would go up $.17. that's not a hardship, especially when one considers what we pay in food stamps to subsidize micky d.


What about machines? You don't need to raise the price of burgers. You can fire 2/3 of the cashiers, replace them with kiosks, and raise the pay for the remaining workers to maybe $18/hr.

Image


I look for that to become standard in the foreseeable future (10 yrs +/-). I'm not saying I'll like it (I probably won't like it) but it's what's coming, good or bad.


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16 Aug 2015, 6:54 am

LoveNotHate wrote:

I disagree. nearly everything he wants to do is backed up by a tax.

The solution for college? Taxes

One of the solutions - and one that will ensure less money is spent on tuition overall.
Quote:
The solution for Healthcare : Taxes

A single-payer healthcare system and reducing drug spend (by doing things like focusing on generic drugs, which are no less effective but are just out of patent) will ensure that you can achieve his solutions with little or no extra taxation.
Quote:
The solution for Climate Crisis: Taxes

Less spending on greenhouse gas emitters, more on renewable energy.
Quote:
The solution for poverty: Taxes
The solution for jobs : Taxes

Plus justice reform, healthcare reform, immigration reform, education reform, and raising the minimum wage... and three of those things theoretically involve less government spending.
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The solution for education: Taxes

Actually, his main solution seems to be "ending No Child Left Behind", which is widely recognised as a disastrous policy.
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That is the whole point of being "Robin Hood" Sanders.

That's a name other people (you're the first I've seen use it) have given him. I may as well say "you're only anti-tax because you're Dubya LoveNotHate".

Essentially, put up or shut up. Suggest evidence-based solutions for these problems which don't involve taxation on the people who cause them, and then you can criticise them. If that's too hard, show that his solutions won't work.

If you criticise somebody just because they don't fit with your ideology, then you've got to show that they're the problem, and not your ideology.



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16 Aug 2015, 8:52 am

Raptor wrote:
I look for that to become standard in the foreseeable future (10 yrs +/-). I'm not saying I'll like it (I probably won't like it) but it's what's coming, good or bad.

There's a chain of gas stations called Sheetz that's had this kind of compri system for customers for at least 10 years at their fast-food counter.


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16 Aug 2015, 9:36 am

The_Walrus wrote:
That's a name other people (you're the first I've seen use it) have given him. I may as well say "you're only anti-tax because you're Dubya LoveNotHate".


There are:
- videos of him surrounded by people dressed as Robin Hood with Robin Hood signs
- websites that promote his agenda present him as Robin Hood
- media calls one of his taxes the "Robin Hood tax"

I would think at some point he would ask why people are dressed in costumes at his speeches. Unless he already knows why they are, and he is OK with people characterizing him this way.

At the very least, since he wants to be president, he should be able to stand up for himself and say, "look I am not the bandit you characterize me as". He doesn't though.



The_Walrus wrote:
Essentially, put up or shut up. Suggest evidence-based solutions for these problems which don't involve taxation on the people who cause them, and then you can criticise them. If that's too hard, show that his solutions won't work.

Left wing economics can be fabulous ideas, however, they don't work because of human greed.

Bernie is probably a very nice guy, who really cares for people, and really wants to fix poverty, injustice and suffering. However, his plans to raise tax revenue to "fight" these problems won't work; It never works. It's foolish and destructive. And taxing is not moral IMO. I can't get past the "I am entitled to someone else's money".

What happens is that when money becomes available then people want that money for themselves.

For example, people want raises, to hire more staff, fund new spending projects, remodel the office, new computers, new company cars, trips for employees , middle men show up offering new services .... and sooner or later, hey, we need more money!

Capitalism is the answer. Services paid directly by the consumer. So the money does not pass through a 1000 greedy hands.



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16 Aug 2015, 12:11 pm

Orwell wrote:
Raptor wrote:
More poor people have become rich here than anywhere else because capitalism does reward.

Wrong, like most everything else you say, but this one is so baldly, measurably wrong that it's comical. Socio-economic mobility is lower in America than in almost any other developed nation (Britain does slightly worse).


Why of course I'm wrong. All those immigrants without a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of have and continue to flock to the US of A just to worsen their lot. Forget about all the business they have started practically with nothing but hard work and have built into small empires.

Hell, I almost have more respect for the local drug lord that built his own empire out of poverty over some derelict that's happy to do nothing with his life but sit in his own s**t and cry for help from the guvmint and expend all his energies resenting the rich and even those to actually do something for themselves.

Whatever, though...... :roll:


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