feminist Julie Bindel "put all men in some kind of camp"
06 Sep 2015, 10:14 am
https://web.archive.org/web/20150904155 ... lie-bindel
Quote:
will heterosexuality survive women’s liberation?
It won’t, not unless men get their act together, have their power taken from them and behave themselves. I mean, I would actually put them all in some kind of camp where they can all drive around in quad bikes, or bicycles, or white vans. I would give them a choice of vehicles to drive around with, give them no porn, they wouldn’t be able to fight – we would have wardens, of course! Women who want to see their sons or male loved ones would be able to go and visit, or take them out like a library book, and then bring them back.
I hope heterosexuality doesn’t survive, actually. I would like to see a truce on heterosexuality. I would like an amnesty on heterosexuality until we have sorted ourselves out. Because under patriarchy it’s s**t.
And I am sick of hearing from individual women that their men are all right. Those men have been shored up by the advantages of patriarchy and they are complacent, they are not stopping other men from being s**t.
I would love to see a women’s liberation that results in women turning away from men and saying: “when you come back as human beings, then we might look again.”
It won’t, not unless men get their act together, have their power taken from them and behave themselves. I mean, I would actually put them all in some kind of camp where they can all drive around in quad bikes, or bicycles, or white vans. I would give them a choice of vehicles to drive around with, give them no porn, they wouldn’t be able to fight – we would have wardens, of course! Women who want to see their sons or male loved ones would be able to go and visit, or take them out like a library book, and then bring them back.
I hope heterosexuality doesn’t survive, actually. I would like to see a truce on heterosexuality. I would like an amnesty on heterosexuality until we have sorted ourselves out. Because under patriarchy it’s s**t.
And I am sick of hearing from individual women that their men are all right. Those men have been shored up by the advantages of patriarchy and they are complacent, they are not stopping other men from being s**t.
I would love to see a women’s liberation that results in women turning away from men and saying: “when you come back as human beings, then we might look again.”
prominent feminists for the last 30 years shared similar anti-male sentiments they all prominent in the feminist movement their works are cited in feminist academia, their textbooks used in women/gender studies. books like feminist frontiers, feminism is queer, etc. when they interact with the public outside their echo chambers they all whine about equality. feminists say something different among themselves and another different thing when talking to the pubic
https://hequal.wordpress.com/2015/09/05 ... r-all-men/
Quote:
In the feminist world, Bindel’s views are far from isolated and she’s just the latest in a long line of high profile feminists to propose either imprisoning all men or even eliminating or exterminating all or the vast majority of the male population. Bindel’s fellow travellers in this regard include author of the “Scum Manifesto” Valerie Solanas, “academic” Mary Daly (for whom Bindel wrote a glowing obituary) and also Sally Miller Gearhart, an author who also worked at San Francisco State University. Nor is this an isolated incident in terms of Bindel’s behaviour, for example in 2006 she wrote a Guardian column titled “Why I hate men” and her writing regularly attacks men as a whole falsely paints violence and abuse as gendered, something done by men to women, rather than by people to other people.
More recently, feminist hatred of men has made the news with incidents involving Bahar Mustafa at Goldsmiths’ University and Lib Dem Executive Committee member Sarah Noble at the NUS Conference (a story broken exclusively by HEqual). it’s interesting that the one common theme that almost every piece of feminist hate is the involvement of the higher education system. Mustapha is the Diversity Officer at Goldsmith’s Students Union who banned white men from events and called for their death on Twitter. Noble’s misandry came to light due to her calls to “ban men from society” at the NUS Women’s Conference, with her Twitter acocunt also littered with misandrist hate speech and she’s since started a new job at the NUS too! Daly was a professor at Boston College who didn’t just want men to be reduced to 10% of the population, she infamously kicked male students out of her classes too! Gearhart worked at a University for decades too and therefore it’s little surprise to see that Bindel is a research fellow at Lincoln University and has previously held a position at bth Leeds and Brunel Universities too. Numerous other feminist extremists also work in institutions in places such as the North east and in Bristol with others exposed in a leak of info from the Rad Fem Hub website. It’s little wonder we have such a huge gender education gap when so many universities are hotbeds of unopposed gender hatred.
More recently, feminist hatred of men has made the news with incidents involving Bahar Mustafa at Goldsmiths’ University and Lib Dem Executive Committee member Sarah Noble at the NUS Conference (a story broken exclusively by HEqual). it’s interesting that the one common theme that almost every piece of feminist hate is the involvement of the higher education system. Mustapha is the Diversity Officer at Goldsmith’s Students Union who banned white men from events and called for their death on Twitter. Noble’s misandry came to light due to her calls to “ban men from society” at the NUS Women’s Conference, with her Twitter acocunt also littered with misandrist hate speech and she’s since started a new job at the NUS too! Daly was a professor at Boston College who didn’t just want men to be reduced to 10% of the population, she infamously kicked male students out of her classes too! Gearhart worked at a University for decades too and therefore it’s little surprise to see that Bindel is a research fellow at Lincoln University and has previously held a position at bth Leeds and Brunel Universities too. Numerous other feminist extremists also work in institutions in places such as the North east and in Bristol with others exposed in a leak of info from the Rad Fem Hub website. It’s little wonder we have such a huge gender education gap when so many universities are hotbeds of unopposed gender hatred.
_________________
http://theothermccain.com/category/feminism/sex-trouble/
Robert Stacy McCain's sex trouble series
06 Sep 2015, 3:13 pm
Bindel's only "prominent" because she says crazy things that have rightfully earned a whole heap of scorn. She's a long way from being a feminist. She's an extremely hateful individual, not only a genuine man-hater but also a proud transphobe and determinedly ignorant about many other issues. She's been banned from speaking at most British universities, which rather goes against the "culture of man-hate" thing (indeed, this even warranted a substantial mention - longer than the c&ped extract - in the linked article).
As for the "#killallmen #diecisscuum" tweeter types, these hashtags are humorous responses to the accusation of misandry (or cisphobia, which is possibly the most ridiculous concept ever devised). They can't be considered evidence for widespread misandry, they're little different from asking a woman thousands of miles away to make you a sandwich. The Diversity Officer banning white men from events seemed to have Intersectionality back to front.
06 Sep 2015, 3:28 pm
claiming she is not a feminists does nothing to help feminism. she is a founder of Women 4 Justice a U.K feminist group who claim to campaign against voilence against women. i sent a tweet to WFJ asking them if they endorce Julie's anti-male advocacy i am still waiting for a reply
http://theothermccain.com/2015/09/06/gu ... d-of-camp/
what she said is common in the feminist academic communities. feminists are two faced. they commonly spout anti-male rhetoric among themselves and in their works which are used and cited in women's studies programs.
Quote:
“Lesbianism is a threat to the ideological, political, personal, and economic basis of male supremacy. . . .
“Our rejection of heterosexual sex challenges male domination in its most individual and common form. . . .
“Lesbianism is the key to liberation and only women who cut their ties to male privilege can be trusted to remain serious in the struggle against male dominance.”
— Charlotte Bunch, “Lesbians in Revolt,” 1971
“I think heterosexuality cannot come naturally to many women: I think that widespread heterosexuality among women is a highly artificial product of the patriarchy. . . . I think that most women have to be coerced into heterosexuality.”
— Marilyn Frye, “A Lesbian’s Perspective on Women’s Studies,” speech to the National Women’s Studies Association conference, 1980
“But the hatred of women is a source of sexual pleasure for men in its own right. Intercourse appears to be the expression of that contempt in pure form, in the form of a sexed hierarchy; it requires no passion or heart because it is power without invention articulating the arrogance of those who do the f*****g. Intercourse is the pure, sterile, formal expression of men’s contempt for women . . .”
— Andrea Dworkin, Intercourse, 1987
“Sexuality is to feminism what work is to Marxism: that which is most one’s own, yet most taken away. . . .
“As the organized expropriation of the work of some for the benefit of others defines a class, workers, the organized expropriation of the sexuality of some for the use of others defines the sex, woman. Heterosexuality is its social structure . . . and control its issue.”
— Catharine MacKinnon, Toward a Feminist Theory of the State (1989)
“Male sexual violence against women and ‘normal’ heterosexual intercourse are essential to patriarchy because they establish the dominance of the penis over the vagina, and thus the power relations between the sexes. . . . Men’s sexual violence against women is the primary vehicle through which the dominance of the penis over the vagina is established.”
— Dee Graham, Loving to Survive: Sexual Terror, Men’s Violence, and Women’s Lives (1994)
“There are politics in sexual relationships because they occur in the context of a society that assigns power based on gender and other systems of inequality and privilege. . . . [T]he interconnections of systems are reflected in the concept of heteropatriarchy, the dominance associated with a gender binary system that presumes heterosexuality as a social norm. . . .
“As many feminists have pointed out, heterosexuality is organized in such a way that the power men have in society gets carried into relationships and can encourage women’s subservience, sexually and emotionally.”
— Susan M. Shaw and Janet Lee, Women’s Voices, Feminist Visions (fifth edition, 2012)
Despite this ideology’s long history, most people are shocked when someone like Julie Bindel is caught saying in public what is actually taught to many thousands of university students every year within the academic Feminist-Industrial Complex. This shocked reaction is the result of a gap between feminism’s exoteric discourse (what feminists say when seeking support from the general public) and feminism’s esoteric doctrine (the beliefs shared among intellectuals and activists who lead and control the movement)
“Our rejection of heterosexual sex challenges male domination in its most individual and common form. . . .
“Lesbianism is the key to liberation and only women who cut their ties to male privilege can be trusted to remain serious in the struggle against male dominance.”
— Charlotte Bunch, “Lesbians in Revolt,” 1971
“I think heterosexuality cannot come naturally to many women: I think that widespread heterosexuality among women is a highly artificial product of the patriarchy. . . . I think that most women have to be coerced into heterosexuality.”
— Marilyn Frye, “A Lesbian’s Perspective on Women’s Studies,” speech to the National Women’s Studies Association conference, 1980
“But the hatred of women is a source of sexual pleasure for men in its own right. Intercourse appears to be the expression of that contempt in pure form, in the form of a sexed hierarchy; it requires no passion or heart because it is power without invention articulating the arrogance of those who do the f*****g. Intercourse is the pure, sterile, formal expression of men’s contempt for women . . .”
— Andrea Dworkin, Intercourse, 1987
“Sexuality is to feminism what work is to Marxism: that which is most one’s own, yet most taken away. . . .
“As the organized expropriation of the work of some for the benefit of others defines a class, workers, the organized expropriation of the sexuality of some for the use of others defines the sex, woman. Heterosexuality is its social structure . . . and control its issue.”
— Catharine MacKinnon, Toward a Feminist Theory of the State (1989)
“Male sexual violence against women and ‘normal’ heterosexual intercourse are essential to patriarchy because they establish the dominance of the penis over the vagina, and thus the power relations between the sexes. . . . Men’s sexual violence against women is the primary vehicle through which the dominance of the penis over the vagina is established.”
— Dee Graham, Loving to Survive: Sexual Terror, Men’s Violence, and Women’s Lives (1994)
“There are politics in sexual relationships because they occur in the context of a society that assigns power based on gender and other systems of inequality and privilege. . . . [T]he interconnections of systems are reflected in the concept of heteropatriarchy, the dominance associated with a gender binary system that presumes heterosexuality as a social norm. . . .
“As many feminists have pointed out, heterosexuality is organized in such a way that the power men have in society gets carried into relationships and can encourage women’s subservience, sexually and emotionally.”
— Susan M. Shaw and Janet Lee, Women’s Voices, Feminist Visions (fifth edition, 2012)
Despite this ideology’s long history, most people are shocked when someone like Julie Bindel is caught saying in public what is actually taught to many thousands of university students every year within the academic Feminist-Industrial Complex. This shocked reaction is the result of a gap between feminism’s exoteric discourse (what feminists say when seeking support from the general public) and feminism’s esoteric doctrine (the beliefs shared among intellectuals and activists who lead and control the movement)
_________________
http://theothermccain.com/category/feminism/sex-trouble/
Robert Stacy McCain's sex trouble series
09 Sep 2015, 10:45 am
The_Walrus wrote:
Bindel's only "prominent" because she says crazy things that have rightfully earned a whole heap of scorn. She's a long way from being a feminist.
Let's not play a game of "find the Scotsman". If an outsider needs to consult a list of 'approved feminists', it's time to either clean up your house or find a more suitable label for yourself (or, you know, ditch labels entirely).
Quote:
She's an extremely hateful individual, not only a genuine man-hater but also a proud transphobe and determinedly ignorant about many other issues. She's been banned from speaking at most British universities, which rather goes against the "culture of man-hate" thing (indeed, this even warranted a substantial mention - longer than the c&ped extract - in the linked article).
Just wondering, what are your thoughts on "rape culture" given the above position?
Quote:
As for the "#killallmen #diecisscuum" tweeter types, these hashtags are humorous responses to the accusation of misandry (or cisphobia, which is possibly the most ridiculous concept ever devised). They can't be considered evidence for widespread misandry, they're little different from asking a woman thousands of miles away to make you a sandwich. The Diversity Officer banning white men from events seemed to have Intersectionality back to front.
You're being a little disingenuous regarding #killallmen, particularly given the double standard when applied in reverse. #hashtags are no different to flags in that they can mean whatever any individual wishes them to believe. There's an issue, too, with the flagrant hypocrisy of supporting a 'murder joke' while condemning 'rape jokes'. Whilst I happen to think all subjects are fair game for comedy - I judge comics based on how subjectively funny I find their jokes to be - inconsistencies in idealogues undermine the legitimacy of the ideology.
With all that said, there's an important distinction to be made between "feminists", "social justice warriors" and "false flag trolls". The latter two groups are subgroups within the first (and indeed within many other organisations and movements). It's for this reason that ideas should, to an extent, be discussed separately to the ideology of the individual expressing said ideas. I think that most sensible people would agree that Bindel is on the lunatic fringe of any group she's part of.
09 Sep 2015, 2:35 pm
Thankfully this crazy individual is of so little consequence.
Here I am as man totally unaffected by this, and I think there are quite a lot of whinging going on becuase one extremist is mouthing off, which is indicative of a broader resentment.
There is a debate to made about what egalitarianism is. However there are some the want to go back to 1940s and that isn't going to happen.
09 Sep 2015, 8:04 pm
What she says is crazy, though this not the first time I've heard feminists speak this way.
On the other hand, one should discount her, as she is one of the leading voices of global feminism.
If you are a feminist and have never heard of her, you should be horrible ashamed.
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10 Sep 2015, 10:54 am
Hmm, don't men build things like prisons and vans? Were generally bigger too. I don't see how any of this is a physical possibility. The only way to convince men to build a prison for their selves is through a lot of heterosexual relations with women, so I don't see how women as a whole could achieve this through being lesbians.
I think people should just ignore this lady. Her mind will literally explode if people stop showering her with attention.
For some reason I'm imagining her as the feminist from Portlandia.
10 Sep 2015, 11:05 am
JNathanK wrote:
Hmm, don't men build things like prisons and vans? Were generally bigger too. I don't see how any of this is a physical possibility. The only way to convince men to build a prison for their selves is through a lot of heterosexual relations with women, so I don't see how women as a whole could achieve this through being lesbians.
I think people should just ignore this lady. Her mind will literally explode if people stop showering her with attention.
For some reason I'm imagining her as the feminist from Portlandia.
I think people should just ignore this lady. Her mind will literally explode if people stop showering her with attention.
For some reason I'm imagining her as the feminist from Portlandia.
Yeah, the only way to handle people like her is to ignore them. You can't shut them up any other way short of depriving them of freedom of speech, which would, to their warped little minds, validate the things that they say.
_________________
When everyone is losing their heads except you, maybe you don't understand the situation.
10 Sep 2015, 2:34 pm
adifferentname wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Bindel's only "prominent" because she says crazy things that have rightfully earned a whole heap of scorn. She's a long way from being a feminist.
Let's not play a game of "find the Scotsman".
Fallacious use of a fallacy. Angus is a true Scotsman because he's Scottish, even if he puts sugar on his porridge. Charles isn't a true Scotsman because he's never been to Scotland. It isn't a "no true Scotsman" fallacy to say "people who seek to propagate inequality are not feminists", it's just stating an a priori truth. It would be "true Scotsman"-ish to say "registered Republicans are not feminists".
Quote:
Quote:
She's an extremely hateful individual, not only a genuine man-hater but also a proud transphobe and determinedly ignorant about many other issues. She's been banned from speaking at most British universities, which rather goes against the "culture of man-hate" thing (indeed, this even warranted a substantial mention - longer than the c&ped extract - in the linked article).
Just wondering, what are your thoughts on "rape culture" given the above position?
I don't really follow. To avoid talking at cross purposes, what do you understand "rape culture" to mean?
Quote:
Quote:
As for the "#killallmen #diecisscuum" tweeter types, these hashtags are humorous responses to the accusation of misandry (or cisphobia, which is possibly the most ridiculous concept ever devised). They can't be considered evidence for widespread misandry, they're little different from asking a woman thousands of miles away to make you a sandwich. The Diversity Officer banning white men from events seemed to have Intersectionality back to front.
You're being a little disingenuous regarding #killallmen, particularly given the double standard when applied in reverse. #hashtags are no different to flags in that they can mean whatever any individual wishes them to believe. There's an issue, too, with the flagrant hypocrisy of supporting a 'murder joke' while condemning 'rape jokes'. Whilst I happen to think all subjects are fair game for comedy - I judge comics based on how subjectively funny I find their jokes to be - inconsistencies in idealogues undermine the legitimacy of the ideology.
Whilst I think murder is nearly always worse than rape (I hesitate to speak in absolutes, there may be some cases where death is preferable to surviving a particularly sadistic torture-rape, but let's not get bogged down in that), I think they're fundamentally different crimes (no way!), which are also treated differently by society.
Two important distinctions:
1) There are huge numbers of rape survivors, but no murder survivors. A joke making light of rape is more likely to end up laughing at someone in the room than one making light of murder (though I'm sure most people would feel terrible and immediately apologise profusely if they humorously trivialised murder in a way that upset a relative of a murder victim)
2) Rape has a mixed reception in society - whilst nearly everyone (see above comment on absolutes) will condemn rape, often people will say things like "she must want it if she was at that party/dressed that way/had previously had loads of sex". Because trivialisation of rape is reasonably common and potentially harmful (e.g. if young men may not realise how harmful certain actions can be, or alternatively may feel extremely guilty over a perfectly harmless sexual encounter), it's more important to challenge it than it is with murder, where there's a pretty good understanding of what it is, and why it is wrong.
I'm sure there are plenty of jokes which feature rape and don't trivialise it. Personally, I probably don't have a problem with them, unless I do for other reasons. Jokes which attack rapists, for example, or jokes making fun of people who trivialise rape (related).
As a direct comparison, #rapeallmen would (perhaps counter-intuitively) be more offensive to me than #killallmen. Killing someone can be justified: self defence, or the death penalty. I think the bulk of these tweets are complaining about the actions of a man or group of men, then suggesting, using hyperbole, that they should be killed either as punishment or to stop it happening again - there's then a second use of hyperbole in the unreasonable extrapolation to all men. #rapeallmen, on the other hand, would merely be calling for people to suffer (I just checked and it seems that tag doesn't really exist - #rapeallwomen does, but again seems to mostly be semi-humorous commentaries on #killallmen, not literal advocacy).
Quote:
With all that said, there's an important distinction to be made between "feminists", "social justice warriors" and "false flag trolls". The latter two groups are subgroups within the first (and indeed within many other organisations and movements).
I think they're best understood as three completely separate things that people can be (not sure "group" is a fair description of "false flag trolls" in particular, but this is just semantics.[quote]I think that most sensible people would agree that Bindel is on the lunatic fringe of any group she's part of.
Unfortunately, I'm sure she's a member of several groups where her views are not fringe - but those groups will themselves be on the fringes of society.
13 Sep 2015, 11:23 am
This lady needs to be euthinized.
_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
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13 Sep 2015, 11:43 am
AspieOtaku wrote:
This lady needs to be euthinized.
You do that and you give 'validity' to her warped statements. She's just saying these things because it gets her attention. Ignore her and she'll just go away.
_________________
When everyone is losing their heads except you, maybe you don't understand the situation.
13 Sep 2015, 12:49 pm
glebel wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
This lady needs to be euthinized.
You do that and you give 'validity' to her warped statements. She's just saying these things because it gets her attention. Ignore her and she'll just go away.
_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList
13 Sep 2015, 3:04 pm
AspieOtaku wrote:
glebel wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
This lady needs to be euthinized.
You do that and you give 'validity' to her warped statements. She's just saying these things because it gets her attention. Ignore her and she'll just go away.
Okay, I'll go for that !
_________________
When everyone is losing their heads except you, maybe you don't understand the situation.
13 Sep 2015, 7:47 pm
glebel wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
glebel wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
This lady needs to be euthinized.
You do that and you give 'validity' to her warped statements. She's just saying these things because it gets her attention. Ignore her and she'll just go away.
Okay, I'll go for that !
_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList
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