I have proof that there is no penalty for apostasy in Islam?

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Or worldly punishment anyway....
In the 30 cases where apostasy is mentioned in the Qur'an, there is not a single mention of a punishment for apostasy in this world.... and in chapter 4, a chapter revealed at Madina where muslims had their own government, in verse 137, talks of those who committ apostasy, then revert, the n committ apostasy, and so on, and makes no mention of a punishment by humans, and if the apostate is to be killed the first time, how are they to revert and apostasize over and over again? furthermore, there is an authentic hadeeth (saying) of Prophet Muhammad where a man accepts Islam and makes a pledge to Muhammad, then later comes and says, "O Prophet, cancel my pledge," and Muhammad refuses, so the next three days, every day, he comes back to cancel his pledge, then leaves Madinah, and Muhammad does nothing... also, the hadeeth people quote as being reason for killing apostates, ("whosoever leaveth his religion, kill him,") only has one narrator and is so vaguely worded that it could mean a Jew who converts to Islam is to be killed, which would obviously be bad from a muslim's point of view.... also, the other hadeeth people cite, which says, "there are only 3 cases in which a Muslim's blood may be shed, as retaliation for murder, as punishment for illegal sexual intercourse, and for leaving Islam and leaving the Muslims" may refer to those 'hypocrites' who were pretending to be Muslim to weaken islam after leaving, and to relay information as spies to those who wished to hurt Islam, and for those who "left the Muslims" meaning those who join ranks with the enemy... also, the ottoman empire abolished the death penalty for apostasy in 1844...also the hadeeth about leaving the muslims is contradicted by the hadeeth of a man who left islam and canceled his pledge...

Define authentic hadith. The hadiths in question have a following and the authors are respected by some.

This is why you should not become a Salafi.

Also people have been put to death for Apostasy in Islam, and laws exist



Also positioning yourself as a "True Scotsman" isn't going to help much. Many people claim to follow the true path.

I would distance yourself from people like this. Focus on what you believe as a reversionist/reformist and define yourself that way. Only go to a mosque that shares your position.

Well in that case why aren't more and more questioning the religion a lot more? Like what makes that religion more appealing than say something that isn't monotheistic or simply not having a religion where you have to abide by strict rules(though I know depending on the sect/group of muslims that can vary)?

I imagine at least some muslims believe that it is wrong to renounce the faith and consider other beliefs and some of them are in powerful positions in Islam theocracies but it is certainly no such laws are in the Qur'an, never read it though. Though in those theocracies that is probably largely irrelevant to the populace who could still face legal penalty for going against the religion.

Notice the countries that are under Salafi/Wahhabi influence are the ones with the death penalty for it.

NO penalty should be given to apostasy.
NO penalty should be given to proselytism.

This is if you truly believe in "no compulsion in religion".

If you want people to respect your right to believe an worship, you must respect others right to choose theirs.

A belief that requires compulsion implies it cannot stand up to scrutiny.

Well, my parents are from Turkey, and everything is legal in Turkey... all forms of sharia are banned under the secular constitution...... proselytizing other faiths, blasphemy, and apostasy are all legal.... the vast, vast majority of people are still Muslim, though.

Turkey is more secular, but I worry for its future.

You're saying that despite the fact that many/most governments of Muslim countries severely punish apostasy that that practice does not come from Muslim scripture: that there is no Islamic scriptural basis for Muslim governments doing that.

That might actually be true.

Christ never said "break people on the rack who deny me", but thats exactly what the Spanish Inquisition would do. They would even do that to folks who DIDNT deny Christ, but did deny the Pope.

In fact the Inquisitors would often drape a cloth over the statue of Christ to cover his head before they got to work on torturing a heretic so that Christ wouldn't able see what was being done in his name!

You are showing that the Koran seems to not support penalty for apostacy, but conflicting Hadiths sometime do order it. So there in lies the rub. Which Hadith is right?

^ Right! ^

How can anyone say that there is no penalty for apostasy in Islam when it has been demonstrated time and again that the penalty for apostasy in Islam is death?

We read the news and we see the videos, so saying that what we've seen doesn't exist won't change what we know to be true - the penalty for apostasy against Islam is death.

Alas, it might not be in the Koran itself--but it might be in subsequent theological works which might be followed as closely as the Koran.

So ... a philosophy that is not canonical to the Koran - yet one that is still called "Islam" - is being used to dictate the penalties for apostasy against Islam. How can something that was not written by their 'Prophet' be used to judge his followers?

That would be like moderators on another aspie website banning members from this website for using improper grammar, punctuation and spelling.

actually, you ALL are wrong.... there are conflicting prophetic orders given by Prophet Muhammad which give conflicting evidence as to the punishment for apostasy.... Muhammad was once quoted as saying, "whosoever leaveth his religion, kill him," but this hadeeth is so vaguely worded it could even refer to a jew who converts to islam, and this hadeeth is weak and unreliable, sit only has one narrator... he also said, "there are only 3 cases in which a Muslim's blood may be shed.... in retaliation for murder, for illegal sexual intercourse, or for reverting from Islam and leaving the Muslim (other versions say, "abandoning Islam and leaving the Muslims") however, many scholars say this refers to those who committ treason and join ranks with the enemy,including jews and christians who were engaging in hypocrisy by pretending to be muslim in order to weaken islam... another hadeeth talks of a man who makes a pledge to prophet muhammad and accepts Islam, and then later says, "O Prophet, cancel my pledge." muhammad refused. he came back the next day, and said the same thing,muhammad refused. he came back the next day, and same thing... eventually he left Madinah (the Muslim city state) and Muhammad never had him killed.....

You said yourself you are willing to apply the death penalty for similar things to apostasy, to me this is not much better..

Islam is an entire way of life.... if we allowed for people to proselytize in an Islamic state, then the society would crumble, and even those who don't convert would become less pious... as for blasphemy, I have to go with the scriptures... if the scriptures say to do something I do it... it's not i my place to cherry pick..... in fact, I'm not an expert on Islamic law and dogma, so don't take my word for it... the majority of Muslim scholars say apostasy is punishable by death...... my position is held by a minority of scholars, so imagine what scholars have to say about blasphemy and proselytizing.... besides, Judaism has similar laws... the punishment for apostasy in Judaism is stoning to death, and the punishment for blasphemy is death as well...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Judaism

Why would you want to live in a theocracy anyway? Please tell me what is superior about an Islamic State.

IMO if your values and beliefs stand up on their own, then you wouldn't be threatened about what others think.

Btw Pakistan is the no 1. in google searches of Gay Porn check the research. Also Gay sex is more prevalent than you might think. These people don't see themselves as gay, it is bit like Ancient Greece, becuase the younger men don't have access to intimacy with females they engage in gay sex in the interim.

The reality is these states never stack up. No Saudi Arabia none of them.

Do you expect us to believe that you are the only one who is right?