What if Obama really forged his birth Birth Certificate?

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Kraichgauer
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16 Dec 2015, 1:31 am

Obama's second term is almost up, for crying out loud! Is anyone even beating this dead horse anymore?


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16 Dec 2015, 1:52 am

What all those bailouts did was postpone the second Great Depression and assure it will be worse when it does happen then it would have been had it been allowed to happen in 2009. The economy is in worse fundemenal shape now then in the 2000's. We are more dependent on too big to fail then we were. The middle class the backbone of American dominance of the 20th century is shrinking. The permenent underclass is bigger. People are more stressed out and we are even more divided politically and socially.


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16 Dec 2015, 1:50 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
What all those bailouts did was postpone the second Great Depression and assure it will be worse when it does happen then it would have been had it been allowed to happen in 2009. The economy is in worse fundemenal shape now then in the 2000's. We are more dependent on too big to fail then we were. The middle class the backbone of American dominance of the 20th century is shrinking. The permenent underclass is bigger. People are more stressed out and we are even more divided politically and socially.

There is no proof the economy is worse off.

Manufacturing is growing and faster than anyone expected... It was expected it would be done in due to subsidized foreign competition

Energy market is growing again with the U.S. becoming one of the biggest oil producers again... No one expected this.

Renewable energy market is growing again.... everyone thought China would kill it.

IT is growing again, despite not hiring entry level workers.

Every part of the economy is growing faster than expected.


The U.S. economy is more structurally sound that it was 5 years ago.

Many companies were broken up and sold to others.

Chrysler was sold to Fiat, in order to secure a short term loan. FCA is now very profitable. U.S. made it's money back.
GM was broken up, the new GM only has the core profitable parts. Everything else was sold off or shut down. U.S. made it's money back with interest.
Citi Bank was once of the world's biggest financial companies, until it's government backed restructuring which lead to it being broke up into 4 separate companies. only the core banking company is the successor to Citi Bank. U.S. made it's money back.
AIG was pruned when it was put in government conservatory. Though the former CEO and shareholders did successfully win the federal lawsuit on lack of compensation in regards to their bailout. Though the judge didn't award them damages.
Freddie Mac and Fannie May were reabsorbed by the U.S. Treasury and only still operate because they are generating a decent profit for the government. U.S. made it's money back and is still gaining a profit from it.

The only company that grew bigger from the bail outs was JP Morgan Chase bank.
They weren't bailed out, but were used to stabilize the market and absorb bankrupt financial companies and assume their liabilities.
JP Morgan Chase did make some money from the government over it.

Many companies have strategic, military and economic importance to a country, those that do are normally helped by their national governments.

Though to be fair the U.S. wasn't the only country bailing out companies.
China, India, Australia, UK, Canada, Mexico, EU, and others bailed out key companies to prevent full economic meltdown in their countries.

No country is willing to risk another great depression, even if it means bailing out companies.


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16 Dec 2015, 2:03 pm

nurseangela wrote:
Fnord wrote:
AntDog wrote:
I don't care, he;s on his way out. I want Trump to reverse EVERYTHING he has done besides killing Osama!
So you want General Motors to go out of business? How un-American!


Actually, they should have went out of business. That's how capitalism is supposed to work - the American way. But I guess if you're a big enough company then you'll get special treatment - that's the socialist way. GM is now donating more money to the government. :roll:


Actually socialism doesn't give extra power & privileges to big companies.


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16 Dec 2015, 2:07 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
Raptor wrote:
I would have let GM fall on it's ass just as a terrifying warning to other big companies to be careful. Painful is it would be in terms of lost jobs, the alternative that was exercised sends the wrong message.


Two points to make about this.

1: When GM got bailed out we had recently experimented with letting an important business entity fall on it's ass in hopes that it would serve as a lesson to others. That was Lehman Brothers.

The federal government made a point of not bailing it out. They thought it would scare some responsibility into others.

That experiment failed miserably. It precipitated the collapse of a large number of houses of cards.

2: We turned a profit on bailing out GM. Every dollar was paid back in full with interest.

Frankly, allowing GM to continue to manufacture and sell the Chevy Cruze is far more upsetting than their bailout. 0/10 would not drive again. What a miserable car.

If you want to b***h about a bailout, go look at AIG. When our own banks were getting 25 cents on the dollar through their insurance, AIG convinced our government to help them pay the foreign banks they insured - including Societe General and Credit Suisse, and others, at a full 100 cents on the dollar. And to my knowledge we didn't get that money back.


My position on the role of government remains unchanged. If our refusal to bail out corporations that don't know how to manage themselves brings about economic collapse, wars, fire and brimstone coming down from the skies, rivers and seas boiling, forty years of darkness, earthquakes, volcanoes, the dead rising from the grave, human sacrifice, and even dogs and cats living together then so be it. If we're in that precarious of a situation then all the above are bound to happen sooner or later so let it happen now, get over it, and rebuild from the ashes.


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16 Dec 2015, 2:10 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Obama's second term is almost up, for crying out loud! Is anyone even beating this dead horse anymore?


Raptor wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Obama was born in an Hawaiian hospital--on US soil--while Hawaii was a state--case closed. He was a product of a romance between an American student and a Kenyan student studying in America.

Yeah, but it's still fun to f**k with the Obama supporters with the "birther" thing just for kicks.
:P


I rest my case...


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16 Dec 2015, 2:12 pm

xenocity wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
What all those bailouts did was postpone the second Great Depression and assure it will be worse when it does happen then it would have been had it been allowed to happen in 2009. The economy is in worse fundemenal shape now then in the 2000's. We are more dependent on too big to fail then we were. The middle class the backbone of American dominance of the 20th century is shrinking. The permenent underclass is bigger. People are more stressed out and we are even more divided politically and socially.

There is no proof the economy is worse off.

Manufacturing is growing and faster than anyone expected... It was expected it would be done in due to subsidized foreign competition

Energy market is growing again with the U.S. becoming one of the biggest oil producers again... No one expected this.

Renewable energy market is growing again.... everyone thought China would kill it.

IT is growing again, despite not hiring entry level workers.

Every part of the economy is growing faster than expected.


The U.S. economy is more structurally sound that it was 5 years ago.

Many companies were broken up and sold to others.

Chrysler was sold to Fiat, in order to secure a short term loan. FCA is now very profitable. U.S. made it's money back.
GM was broken up, the new GM only has the core profitable parts. Everything else was sold off or shut down. U.S. made it's money back with interest.
Citi Bank was once of the world's biggest financial companies, until it's government backed restructuring which lead to it being broke up into 4 separate companies. only the core banking company is the successor to Citi Bank. U.S. made it's money back.
AIG was pruned when it was put in government conservatory. Though the former CEO and shareholders did successfully win the federal lawsuit on lack of compensation in regards to their bailout. Though the judge didn't award them damages.
Freddie Mac and Fannie May were reabsorbed by the U.S. Treasury and only still operate because they are generating a decent profit for the government. U.S. made it's money back and is still gaining a profit from it.

The only company that grew bigger from the bail outs was JP Morgan Chase bank.
They weren't bailed out, but were used to stabilize the market and absorb bankrupt financial companies and assume their liabilities.
JP Morgan Chase did make some money from the government over it.

Many companies have strategic, military and economic importance to a country, those that do are normally helped by their national governments.

Though to be fair the U.S. wasn't the only country bailing out companies.
China, India, Australia, UK, Canada, Mexico, EU, and others bailed out key companies to prevent full economic meltdown in their countries.

No country is willing to risk another great depression, even if it means bailing out companies.


Tell that to all the people working full time yet barely affording ends meet and some of who are homeless, and all the middle class people slipping into poverty as well as all the people realizing you get to live with your parents or multiple room-mates realistically when you become an adult anymore because good luck affording a less crowded living situation. That kinds of seems contrary to a structurally sound economy.


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xenocity
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16 Dec 2015, 2:38 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
xenocity wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
What all those bailouts did was postpone the second Great Depression and assure it will be worse when it does happen then it would have been had it been allowed to happen in 2009. The economy is in worse fundemenal shape now then in the 2000's. We are more dependent on too big to fail then we were. The middle class the backbone of American dominance of the 20th century is shrinking. The permenent underclass is bigger. People are more stressed out and we are even more divided politically and socially.

There is no proof the economy is worse off.

Manufacturing is growing and faster than anyone expected... It was expected it would be done in due to subsidized foreign competition

Energy market is growing again with the U.S. becoming one of the biggest oil producers again... No one expected this.

Renewable energy market is growing again.... everyone thought China would kill it.

IT is growing again, despite not hiring entry level workers.

Every part of the economy is growing faster than expected.


The U.S. economy is more structurally sound that it was 5 years ago.

Many companies were broken up and sold to others.

Chrysler was sold to Fiat, in order to secure a short term loan. FCA is now very profitable. U.S. made it's money back.
GM was broken up, the new GM only has the core profitable parts. Everything else was sold off or shut down. U.S. made it's money back with interest.
Citi Bank was once of the world's biggest financial companies, until it's government backed restructuring which lead to it being broke up into 4 separate companies. only the core banking company is the successor to Citi Bank. U.S. made it's money back.
AIG was pruned when it was put in government conservatory. Though the former CEO and shareholders did successfully win the federal lawsuit on lack of compensation in regards to their bailout. Though the judge didn't award them damages.
Freddie Mac and Fannie May were reabsorbed by the U.S. Treasury and only still operate because they are generating a decent profit for the government. U.S. made it's money back and is still gaining a profit from it.

The only company that grew bigger from the bail outs was JP Morgan Chase bank.
They weren't bailed out, but were used to stabilize the market and absorb bankrupt financial companies and assume their liabilities.
JP Morgan Chase did make some money from the government over it.

Many companies have strategic, military and economic importance to a country, those that do are normally helped by their national governments.

Though to be fair the U.S. wasn't the only country bailing out companies.
China, India, Australia, UK, Canada, Mexico, EU, and others bailed out key companies to prevent full economic meltdown in their countries.

No country is willing to risk another great depression, even if it means bailing out companies.


Tell that to all the people working full time yet barely affording ends meet and some of who are homeless, and all the middle class people slipping into poverty as well as all the people realizing you get to live with your parents or multiple room-mates realistically when you become an adult anymore because good luck affording a less crowded living situation. That kinds of seems contrary to a structurally sound economy.

Structurally sound has nothing to do with what business is willing to pay it's workers.
Most businesses will try to pay as little as possible regardless of the structure of the economy.

As of a week ago the official statistics showed the U.S. middle class stands at 49% of the population, the lowest numbers since Reagan was in office.

Though it has rebounded a few percent over the past few years.

Real estate prices have been rising year after year in most places, with a large part of the world being unable to afford a place on their own near their place of work.
Though if people were willing to move, they could easily find cheaper places.

I mean move to the U.S. midwest you can get cheaper housing than in other parts of the country.
Hell move into Detroit and you can get a big house for pennies on the dollar.

The main reason why American wages have stalled is due to employers paying more on healthcare.
If healthcare costs went down significantly, then U.S. employers would give better raises.
If you are willing to forgo health benefits and buy your own plan, you will get paid more in money.


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16 Dec 2015, 2:42 pm

xenocity wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
What all those bailouts did was postpone the second Great Depression and assure it will be worse when it does happen then it would have been had it been allowed to happen in 2009. The economy is in worse fundemenal shape now then in the 2000's. We are more dependent on too big to fail then we were. The middle class the backbone of American dominance of the 20th century is shrinking. The permenent underclass is bigger. People are more stressed out and we are even more divided politically and socially.

There is no proof the economy is worse off.

Manufacturing is growing and faster than anyone expected... It was expected it would be done in due to subsidized foreign competition

Energy market is growing again with the U.S. becoming one of the biggest oil producers again... No one expected this.

Renewable energy market is growing again.... everyone thought China would kill it.

IT is growing again, despite not hiring entry level workers.

Every part of the economy is growing faster than expected.


The U.S. economy is more structurally sound that it was 5 years ago.

Many companies were broken up and sold to others.

Chrysler was sold to Fiat, in order to secure a short term loan. FCA is now very profitable. U.S. made it's money back.
GM was broken up, the new GM only has the core profitable parts. Everything else was sold off or shut down. U.S. made it's money back with interest.
Citi Bank was once of the world's biggest financial companies, until it's government backed restructuring which lead to it being broke up into 4 separate companies. only the core banking company is the successor to Citi Bank. U.S. made it's money back.
AIG was pruned when it was put in government conservatory. Though the former CEO and shareholders did successfully win the federal lawsuit on lack of compensation in regards to their bailout. Though the judge didn't award them damages.
Freddie Mac and Fannie May were reabsorbed by the U.S. Treasury and only still operate because they are generating a decent profit for the government. U.S. made it's money back and is still gaining a profit from it.

The only company that grew bigger from the bail outs was JP Morgan Chase bank.
They weren't bailed out, but were used to stabilize the market and absorb bankrupt financial companies and assume their liabilities.
JP Morgan Chase did make some money from the government over it.

Many companies have strategic, military and economic importance to a country, those that do are normally helped by their national governments.

Though to be fair the U.S. wasn't the only country bailing out companies.
China, India, Australia, UK, Canada, Mexico, EU, and others bailed out key companies to prevent full economic meltdown in their countries.

No country is willing to risk another great depression, even if it means bailing out companies.


The fundamentals that caused the 2009 depression are still here and more entrenched. With the exception of Madeoff and a few other people nobody really went to prison for messing up the world economy, instead they were f*****g financially rewarded for it. Any company banks etc that are too big to fail have more incentive now only care about themselves, only care about the short term, screw the long term expecting they will get bailed out. The jobs are back, but unlike in the past there is much less benefits, permenent jobs etc. So when the economy downturns people and the businesses not to big to fail will be less able to handle it. People know they are less secure financially and that is an important reason our politics are the way they are.

We may be able able to keep the pyramid scheme up for awhile, after all the last time we kept it up for 3 decades. I doubt we can keep it up that long this time around but who knows. But like with any pyramid scheme it will eventually fail and when it does I hope I am not around to experience it.


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16 Dec 2015, 2:51 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
xenocity wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
What all those bailouts did was postpone the second Great Depression and assure it will be worse when it does happen then it would have been had it been allowed to happen in 2009. The economy is in worse fundemenal shape now then in the 2000's. We are more dependent on too big to fail then we were. The middle class the backbone of American dominance of the 20th century is shrinking. The permenent underclass is bigger. People are more stressed out and we are even more divided politically and socially.

There is no proof the economy is worse off.

Manufacturing is growing and faster than anyone expected... It was expected it would be done in due to subsidized foreign competition

Energy market is growing again with the U.S. becoming one of the biggest oil producers again... No one expected this.

Renewable energy market is growing again.... everyone thought China would kill it.

IT is growing again, despite not hiring entry level workers.

Every part of the economy is growing faster than expected.


The U.S. economy is more structurally sound that it was 5 years ago.

Many companies were broken up and sold to others.

Chrysler was sold to Fiat, in order to secure a short term loan. FCA is now very profitable. U.S. made it's money back.
GM was broken up, the new GM only has the core profitable parts. Everything else was sold off or shut down. U.S. made it's money back with interest.
Citi Bank was once of the world's biggest financial companies, until it's government backed restructuring which lead to it being broke up into 4 separate companies. only the core banking company is the successor to Citi Bank. U.S. made it's money back.
AIG was pruned when it was put in government conservatory. Though the former CEO and shareholders did successfully win the federal lawsuit on lack of compensation in regards to their bailout. Though the judge didn't award them damages.
Freddie Mac and Fannie May were reabsorbed by the U.S. Treasury and only still operate because they are generating a decent profit for the government. U.S. made it's money back and is still gaining a profit from it.

The only company that grew bigger from the bail outs was JP Morgan Chase bank.
They weren't bailed out, but were used to stabilize the market and absorb bankrupt financial companies and assume their liabilities.
JP Morgan Chase did make some money from the government over it.

Many companies have strategic, military and economic importance to a country, those that do are normally helped by their national governments.

Though to be fair the U.S. wasn't the only country bailing out companies.
China, India, Australia, UK, Canada, Mexico, EU, and others bailed out key companies to prevent full economic meltdown in their countries.

No country is willing to risk another great depression, even if it means bailing out companies.


The fundamentals that caused the 2009 depression are still here and more entrenched. With the exception of Madeoff and a few other people nobody really went to prison for messing up the world economy, instead they were f*****g financially rewarded for it. Any company banks etc that are too big to fail have more incentive now only care about themselves, only care about the short term, screw the long term expecting they will get bailed out. The jobs are back, but unlike in the past there is much less benefits, permenent jobs etc. So when the economy downturns people and the businesses not to big to fail will be less able to handle it. People know they are less secure financially and that is an important reason our politics are the way they are.

We may be able able to keep the pyramid scheme up for awhile, after all the last time we kept it up for 3 decades. I doubt we can keep it up that long this time around but who knows. But like with any pyramid scheme it will eventually fail and when it does I hope I am not around to experience it.

They didn't prosecute because they didn't have strong enough evidence to pin on any given people.
All the evidence was circumstantial at best and no judge and/or jury would have been able to give a guilty verdict beyond a reasonable doubt.
You can't prosecute companies for crimes, unless it is antitrust or regulation issue.
Nor can you send companies to jail.
The companies were at fault and have been sued and fined criminally in the U.S. and other countries to the tune of over $100B+

They would have put tighter regulation in place, but they compromised with conservatives to keep the government running.
They also did loosen many of the restrictions in order to end the last government shutdown.


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16 Dec 2015, 2:55 pm

xenocity wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
xenocity wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
What all those bailouts did was postpone the second Great Depression and assure it will be worse when it does happen then it would have been had it been allowed to happen in 2009. The economy is in worse fundemenal shape now then in the 2000's. We are more dependent on too big to fail then we were. The middle class the backbone of American dominance of the 20th century is shrinking. The permenent underclass is bigger. People are more stressed out and we are even more divided politically and socially.

There is no proof the economy is worse off.

Manufacturing is growing and faster than anyone expected... It was expected it would be done in due to subsidized foreign competition

Energy market is growing again with the U.S. becoming one of the biggest oil producers again... No one expected this.

Renewable energy market is growing again.... everyone thought China would kill it.

IT is growing again, despite not hiring entry level workers.

Every part of the economy is growing faster than expected.


The U.S. economy is more structurally sound that it was 5 years ago.

Many companies were broken up and sold to others.

Chrysler was sold to Fiat, in order to secure a short term loan. FCA is now very profitable. U.S. made it's money back.
GM was broken up, the new GM only has the core profitable parts. Everything else was sold off or shut down. U.S. made it's money back with interest.
Citi Bank was once of the world's biggest financial companies, until it's government backed restructuring which lead to it being broke up into 4 separate companies. only the core banking company is the successor to Citi Bank. U.S. made it's money back.
AIG was pruned when it was put in government conservatory. Though the former CEO and shareholders did successfully win the federal lawsuit on lack of compensation in regards to their bailout. Though the judge didn't award them damages.
Freddie Mac and Fannie May were reabsorbed by the U.S. Treasury and only still operate because they are generating a decent profit for the government. U.S. made it's money back and is still gaining a profit from it.

The only company that grew bigger from the bail outs was JP Morgan Chase bank.
They weren't bailed out, but were used to stabilize the market and absorb bankrupt financial companies and assume their liabilities.
JP Morgan Chase did make some money from the government over it.

Many companies have strategic, military and economic importance to a country, those that do are normally helped by their national governments.

Though to be fair the U.S. wasn't the only country bailing out companies.
China, India, Australia, UK, Canada, Mexico, EU, and others bailed out key companies to prevent full economic meltdown in their countries.

No country is willing to risk another great depression, even if it means bailing out companies.


Tell that to all the people working full time yet barely affording ends meet and some of who are homeless, and all the middle class people slipping into poverty as well as all the people realizing you get to live with your parents or multiple room-mates realistically when you become an adult anymore because good luck affording a less crowded living situation. That kinds of seems contrary to a structurally sound economy.

Structurally sound has nothing to do with what business is willing to pay it's workers.
Most businesses will try to pay as little as possible regardless of the structure of the economy.

As of a week ago the official statistics showed the U.S. middle class stands at 49% of the population, the lowest numbers since Reagan was in office.

Though it has rebounded a few percent over the past few years.

Real estate prices have been rising year after year in most places, with a large part of the world being unable to afford a place on their own near their place of work.
Though if people were willing to move, they could easily find cheaper places.

I mean move to the U.S. midwest you can get cheaper housing than in other parts of the country.
Hell move into Detroit and you can get a big house for pennies on the dollar.

The main reason why American wages have stalled is due to employers paying more on healthcare.
If healthcare costs went down significantly, then U.S. employers would give better raises.
If you are willing to forgo health benefits and buy your own plan, you will get paid more in money.


I live in Colorado, housing costs have gone up...and its not people being unwilling to move, its people being unable to find places they can afford. They keep building costly apartments and housing trying to bring in more 'wealthy' population. People desperately want to move and struggle to find something affordable pooling together with room-mates or family members tends to be the only real way.

Also I think Universal Healthcare would be better than employer paid health insurance, that the strain of providing healthcare would not fall on employers which would also mean it couldn't be used as an excuse by companies who can actually afford to pay a living wage.

Apparently to the average person sound economy is not a relevant term since it doesn't actually have anything to do with how the citizens aren't prospering.

I mean great we have a sound economy and poverty is growing and the cost of living increases with no real wage increases maybe we need some more focus on quality of life whilst maintaining a sound economy...but there I go being all socialist again.


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16 Dec 2015, 3:12 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
xenocity wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
xenocity wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
What all those bailouts did was postpone the second Great Depression and assure it will be worse when it does happen then it would have been had it been allowed to happen in 2009. The economy is in worse fundemenal shape now then in the 2000's. We are more dependent on too big to fail then we were. The middle class the backbone of American dominance of the 20th century is shrinking. The permenent underclass is bigger. People are more stressed out and we are even more divided politically and socially.

There is no proof the economy is worse off.

Manufacturing is growing and faster than anyone expected... It was expected it would be done in due to subsidized foreign competition

Energy market is growing again with the U.S. becoming one of the biggest oil producers again... No one expected this.

Renewable energy market is growing again.... everyone thought China would kill it.

IT is growing again, despite not hiring entry level workers.

Every part of the economy is growing faster than expected.


The U.S. economy is more structurally sound that it was 5 years ago.

Many companies were broken up and sold to others.

Chrysler was sold to Fiat, in order to secure a short term loan. FCA is now very profitable. U.S. made it's money back.
GM was broken up, the new GM only has the core profitable parts. Everything else was sold off or shut down. U.S. made it's money back with interest.
Citi Bank was once of the world's biggest financial companies, until it's government backed restructuring which lead to it being broke up into 4 separate companies. only the core banking company is the successor to Citi Bank. U.S. made it's money back.
AIG was pruned when it was put in government conservatory. Though the former CEO and shareholders did successfully win the federal lawsuit on lack of compensation in regards to their bailout. Though the judge didn't award them damages.
Freddie Mac and Fannie May were reabsorbed by the U.S. Treasury and only still operate because they are generating a decent profit for the government. U.S. made it's money back and is still gaining a profit from it.

The only company that grew bigger from the bail outs was JP Morgan Chase bank.
They weren't bailed out, but were used to stabilize the market and absorb bankrupt financial companies and assume their liabilities.
JP Morgan Chase did make some money from the government over it.

Many companies have strategic, military and economic importance to a country, those that do are normally helped by their national governments.

Though to be fair the U.S. wasn't the only country bailing out companies.
China, India, Australia, UK, Canada, Mexico, EU, and others bailed out key companies to prevent full economic meltdown in their countries.

No country is willing to risk another great depression, even if it means bailing out companies.


Tell that to all the people working full time yet barely affording ends meet and some of who are homeless, and all the middle class people slipping into poverty as well as all the people realizing you get to live with your parents or multiple room-mates realistically when you become an adult anymore because good luck affording a less crowded living situation. That kinds of seems contrary to a structurally sound economy.

Structurally sound has nothing to do with what business is willing to pay it's workers.
Most businesses will try to pay as little as possible regardless of the structure of the economy.

As of a week ago the official statistics showed the U.S. middle class stands at 49% of the population, the lowest numbers since Reagan was in office.

Though it has rebounded a few percent over the past few years.

Real estate prices have been rising year after year in most places, with a large part of the world being unable to afford a place on their own near their place of work.
Though if people were willing to move, they could easily find cheaper places.

I mean move to the U.S. midwest you can get cheaper housing than in other parts of the country.
Hell move into Detroit and you can get a big house for pennies on the dollar.

The main reason why American wages have stalled is due to employers paying more on healthcare.
If healthcare costs went down significantly, then U.S. employers would give better raises.
If you are willing to forgo health benefits and buy your own plan, you will get paid more in money.


I live in Colorado, housing costs have gone up...and its not people being unwilling to move, its people being unable to find places they can afford. They keep building costly apartments and housing trying to bring in more 'wealthy' population. People desperately want to move and struggle to find something affordable pooling together with room-mates or family members tends to be the only real way.

Also I think Universal Healthcare would be better than employer paid health insurance, that the strain of providing healthcare would not fall on employers which would also mean it couldn't be used as an excuse by companies who can actually afford to pay a living wage.

Apparently to the average person sound economy is not a relevant term since it doesn't actually have anything to do with how the citizens aren't prospering.

I mean great we have a sound economy and poverty is growing and the cost of living increases with no real wage increases maybe we need some more focus on quality of life whilst maintaining a sound economy...but there I go being all socialist again.

Poverty isn't growing, it's the cost of "non necessities" that are rising.

Colorado's conservative government is following the plan they laid out for development.

The market will readjust when rich people don't want to live in Colorado.

If land value stays flat or goes down, it hurts the existing land holders and the community (remember local and state taxes are mainly from land value).

If land value rises, it means more income for the state and local governments and increases the wealth of the land holders.

There are plenty of poor places in Colorado as I keep hearing about them in other forms of media and from others.

Why do you "NEED" to live in CO?

Americans don't trust the government and believe universal healthcare will greatly increase the cost of healthcare while creating lines and wait times to get to it like Canada and UK.
Us in border states with Canada, are used to seeing Canadian reports of long lines and wait times to see your physician and getting help at the hospital.
We are also no stranger to those Canadian death panels that keep killing elderly Canadians.

We are also used to having Canadians over here using our healthcare too, displacing Americans who need it.

No American wants to become Canada and pay Canadian high tax rates.


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16 Dec 2015, 3:17 pm

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Obama's second term is almost up, for crying out loud! Is anyone even beating this dead horse anymore?


Raptor wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Obama was born in an Hawaiian hospital--on US soil--while Hawaii was a state--case closed. He was a product of a romance between an American student and a Kenyan student studying in America.

Yeah, but it's still fun to f**k with the Obama supporters with the "birther" thing just for kicks.
:P


I rest my case...


Might that just be a sign of a personality defect on your part?


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16 Dec 2015, 4:54 pm

xenocity wrote:
Poverty isn't growing, it's the cost of "non necessities" that are rising.

Colorado's conservative government is following the plan they laid out for development.

The market will readjust when rich people don't want to live in Colorado.

If land value stays flat or goes down, it hurts the existing land holders and the community (remember local and state taxes are mainly from land value).

If land value rises, it means more income for the state and local governments and increases the wealth of the land holders.

There are plenty of poor places in Colorado as I keep hearing about them in other forms of media and from others.

Why do you "NEED" to live in CO?

Americans don't trust the government and believe universal healthcare will greatly increase the cost of healthcare while creating lines and wait times to get to it like Canada and UK.
Us in border states with Canada, are used to seeing Canadian reports of long lines and wait times to see your physician and getting help at the hospital.
We are also no stranger to those Canadian death panels that keep killing elderly Canadians.

We are also used to having Canadians over here using our healthcare too, displacing Americans who need it.

No American wants to become Canada and pay Canadian high tax rates.


Pretty sure housing and food are necessities, and yes the rate of homelessness and poverty is growing.

As for why I live in Colorado I cant afford to move out of state even if I did really want to, but its not so bad aside from the influx of yuppies aside from financial problems but those are effecting most states anyways. Also I am currently on SSI living at my moms place and my entire support network is here not to mention everyone I give a damn about. So it wouldn't be practical.

I am an american and like the idea of Universal Healthcare, I have also heard from plenty of canadians that they have no issue getting medical treatment and the lines aren't that bad so not sure which one to believe or if it just varies like wait times for healthcare here vary. I mean for specialized treatments here there can be quite a wait as well.

Also you said companies pay workers less because they have to pay employee health insurance, Universal Healthcare would get rid of that....people might be taxed a bit higher but they'd also be making more. Then again maybe there is already enough tax revenue to fund Universal Healthcare and they just need to shift around the things they are spending it on. Plenty of people are sick of working full time only to barely scrape by, plus the economy cannot continue to 'thrive' if more and more people are unable to afford basics as well as any less necessary goods and services.

I mean this nation isn't only for the upper class and wealthier you know.


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16 Dec 2015, 7:40 pm

How are they going to prosecute executives in the companies they are bailing out? Convictions happen based on mostly or solely on circumstantial evidence everyday. They did not really want to prosecute. You could of gotten gotten of jurors that want to convict these executives.

The economy is running on stretched out credit, tax loopholes, and accounting tricks anything but fundamentally sound.

But you are 30 so you probably do not remember an economy where a job was available to most who wanted one, and most of the jobs you did not have to worry about bieng laid off once you got a few years in with a company and did not have to worry about retirement or benefits for the most part. So the 2015 economy probably does seem good to you.


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