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DevilKisses
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23 Dec 2015, 3:10 am

It seems like all atheists I know are extremely logical. Does anyone here know any atheists who aren't logical?


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yelekam
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23 Dec 2015, 3:22 am

I've met a number of atheist who are illogical. Being logical or illogical isn't something exclusive to one group of theological belief. In condition, virtually every large theological grouping has some number of both. Being logical is a capacity that anyone can cultivate; its a matter of whether they end up doing so or not.



Yigeren
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23 Dec 2015, 3:42 am

I think atheism tends to attract those that are very logical. Very logical people are usually unable to accept things that seem unlikely or that are unproven. Most religious beliefs depend at least partly on faith, and that doesn't really appeal to those that rely on logic alone.

But I've met religious people that are logical as well. If they are able to reconcile their religious beliefs with their logic, then it can work, I guess. Also some people just believe things that they want to believe, regardless of whether or not they are generally logical in their thinking. I really don't know any atheists, however, so I don't know whether or not they are all logical.



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23 Dec 2015, 7:32 am

If you could reason with those who believe in God, then no one would believe in God.

If you could get those who know that "if a thing can not be measured directly or indirectly, then it is not likely to exist" to make an exception for God, then there would be no atheists.


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23 Dec 2015, 7:52 am

There is no universality behind logic. It's somewhat relative. What you find to be logical may not be logical to someone else. Your methodology of analyzing things may seem rational to you but completely irrational to someone else.

To me, staunch atheists are extremely illogical because they are operating on the basis of believing humans can perceive, discern, and define everything that exists. I find that concept to be highly illogical. Most here probably do not. Who's right?



neilson_wheels
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23 Dec 2015, 8:23 am

Atheists come in all flavours, from perfectly reasonable to BSC's.

I think there is just as much chance you know logical people that happen to be atheists, or you see being religious as illogical.



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23 Dec 2015, 8:42 am

Just about all of them. The belief in nothing is still a belief. The only true logical standpoint is non belief, agnosticism.



Yigeren
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23 Dec 2015, 7:52 pm

Feyokien wrote:
Just about all of them. The belief in nothing is still a belief. The only true logical standpoint is non belief, agnosticism.


Yes, I agree. That's why I'm an agnostic. I can't pretend to know something that hasn't been proven one way or the other. But some that call themselves atheists are actually agnostic. It depends on how you define atheism and apparently people disagree about that.



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24 Dec 2015, 12:48 am

I have been reading a very interesting article criticising secular Buddhist author Stephen Bachelor that follows a similar line of thought - that belief in scientific answers to be all encompassing is itself a belief system, not a lack of one. And believing that scientific enquiry is capable of answering the big questions or solving the big problems of life is in itself a form of faith, not fact. That to believe in the infallibility of science despite its many proven failures and mistakes is in fact blind faith. The article argued that the arrogance of modern science-based atheism is in fact antithesis of the original scientific model, which was to proceed with evidence before conclusions, not the other way around. To understand with an open mind, omitting nothing just because it didn't support your conclusions.
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the viewpoint of the article, but I did enjoy it challenging my own judgements and biases about religion.
I generally say I'm atheist because I don't believe in god as presented in any of the world religions or holy books. And from what I know, there is no need of a god for all that exists to exist. I am not discounting the possibility that god exists and had any part in creating the universe/s, just that I don't believe anyone's tales of him/her/it.
I assume part of the viewpoint of the article was to challenge the belief that atheism is based solely on logic and fact. If there was a way to completely disprove the existence of god logically beyond any doubt, there would be no need for debate.


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andrethemoogle
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24 Dec 2015, 1:42 am

DevilKisses wrote:
It seems like all atheists I know are extremely logical. Does anyone here know any atheists who aren't logical?


A good portion of SJW atheists and "atheism+", logic goes out the door with them.

Anyone can be illogical from any belief system.



Adamantium
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24 Dec 2015, 10:22 am

I have observed that while human beings generally have the capacity for logic, this is just one faculty of their very complicated minds and they are subject to impaired and altered states which sometimes make logical thinking impossible.

It seems that all people, regardless of their thoughts about religion, are subject to the changing cognitive states and cognitive biases that can counter or disable their ability to think logically.

Given this input, my logical faculty suggests that all atheists are illogical much of the time, however well their logical faculties may serve them when they contemplate religion in the abstract.



naturalplastic
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24 Dec 2015, 10:29 am

I pulled out the pie I had been baking- and what do ya know?!?!?!?! !?!?!

There in the crust was the image of Christopher Hitchens!

It was a miracle!

Ever since then I have been a believer...in nonbelief! :D



Edenthiel
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25 Dec 2015, 5:13 pm

Try hanging out at
"Friendly Atheist - You can be skeptical and friendly at the same time"
They 'out' irrational and illogical atheists without hesitation over there, including just about every time Dawkins talks to or about women. :wink:

By and large, I find that atheists tend to be biased toward logical thought & arguments and away from irrational (ie unprovable opinion) ones. Not sure which is the cart and which is the horse, but it seems that if someone is bothered by the irrational when there is a rational alternative, they tend to be atheists.


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Aniihya
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25 Dec 2015, 5:49 pm

I am not an agnostic as agnosticism only defines insecurity of belief or non-belief. I am irreligious and an ignostic.



techstepgenr8tion
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25 Dec 2015, 11:11 pm

I would think it's more common for a logical person to at least be drawn to atheism for a time - whether or not it ultimately sticks - just because it's a lot more sensible than what most of the popular religions available put forward and doesn't deny such obvious things as the age of the earth. Other times some believers are lucky enough to study enough ontology, epistemology, etc. to feel like the grass isn't necessarily greener over there.

As for any growing believe subset including atheism, as it becomes 'vogue' in any way shape or form it will fill up with illogical and irrational people (ie. zealots who simply treat it as their new religion). That's what tends to happen when and if popularity of a particular opinion kicks in.


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26 Dec 2015, 12:27 am

I think non-believers tend to join the Atheist camp out of convenience or for political reasons. Or it's just simpler than explaining particular terms like Ignostic versus Agnostic.

Suppose an Agnostic is looking for like minded people and they join a local Secular Humanist group? The SH group members might be a mix of many different views or even spiritual beliefs, but I think for the sake of simplicity in political activities they'll present themselves as an Atheist group. This might make it easier to organize with other groups like Freedom From Religion.