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Stargazer43
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12 Jan 2016, 8:56 pm

Does anyone feel like the upcoming US election simply has no good options? When I look at the pool of candidates, I feel like I'm trying to pick the one who's the least mentally unstable...but should that really be the criteria we use to choose the leader of our country?

The only one I really like this election is Bernie Sanders. He's not without his flaws though - I have a feeling that even if he does get elected, he'll have very little, if any, chance of actually passing half of the things that he wants to pass...it will probably end up in a gridlock in Congress. I don't really like Hilary - I feel like she stands more for Hilary than for anything else if that makes sense.

On the republican side, Kasich is the only one I've seen who seems to be level-headed and not out to bomb everything that moves, but he's almost dead last in the polls. And of course, with the media how it is, it's hard to hear about any of the candidates other than Trump - he pretty much dominates the air waves. The majority of the people at the top of the polls aren't just crazy, but downright terrifying with some of the things they've been saying.

It may just be me, but I really think that our country should find some way to couple democracy with meritocracy, so that the people who run for high-level government offices actually "pass the test" by governing things successfully beforehand. Of course I have no idea how that would work, but I think it would help if implemented properly.



naturalplastic
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12 Jan 2016, 9:12 pm

It is a rather scary selection to pick from.



GoonSquad
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12 Jan 2016, 9:36 pm

Here is what the Romans did...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursus_honorum

Quote:
The cursus honorum (Latin: "course of offices") was the sequential order of public offices held by aspiring politicians in both the Roman Republic and the early Empire. It was designed for men of senatorial rank. The cursus honorum comprised a mixture of military and political administration posts. Each office had a minimum age for election. There were minimum intervals between holding successive offices and laws forbade repeating an office.[citation needed]

...

To have held each office at the youngest possible age (suo anno, "in his year") was considered a great political success, since to miss out on a praetorship at 39 meant that one could not become consul at 42. Cicero expressed extreme pride not only in being a novus homo ("new man"; comparable to a "self-made man") who became consul even though none of his ancestors had ever served as a consul, but also in having become consul "in his year".[1]


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Fnord
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12 Jan 2016, 9:55 pm

Yeah, great ideas, those Romans had!

Are they still around?


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kraftiekortie
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12 Jan 2016, 9:57 pm

Nope.....but we are still influenced by the Romans....like it or not!



GoonSquad
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12 Jan 2016, 10:39 pm

The republic lasted 500 years and the civilization lasted 2000.

We get our laws, basic government forms, religion, and symbols (the eagle, the fasces) from the Romans. I'd say they had some good ideas.


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12 Jan 2016, 11:08 pm

Really crossing my fingers for our country to have a decent leader again since the last time was in the 80's and 90's.


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GGPViper
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13 Jan 2016, 3:00 am

Stargazer43 wrote:
It may just be me, but I really think that our country should find some way to couple democracy with meritocracy, so that the people who run for high-level government offices actually "pass the test" by governing things successfully beforehand. Of course I have no idea how that would work, but I think it would help if implemented properly.

Such a system would be at high risk for abuse, as it would set up an institution with the power to decide who has "passed the test".... which of course raises the age-old question: Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Anyway, it would seem that a majority of US voters also generally disagree with you (mostly driven by GOP voters, 65 % of which value new ideas more than experience and a proven record):

ImageImageImage

Source: http://www.people-press.org/2015/10/02/ ... aign-2016/

Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders supporters in particular seem to place less emphasis on "Experience and a proven record" compared to "New Ideas and a different approach".



Fnord
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13 Jan 2016, 7:11 am

"Who watches the watchers?" ... indeed ...

Congressmembers can already vote pay raises for themselves, with only a presidential veto to stop them.


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GoonSquad
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13 Jan 2016, 7:50 am

Fnord wrote:
"Who watches the watchers?" ... indeed ...

Congressmembers can already vote pay raises for themselves, with only a presidential veto to stop them.


Answered your own question.

PS
Veto is a latin word and a Roman idea...

:P


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GoonSquad
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13 Jan 2016, 7:58 am

GGPViper wrote:
Anyway, it would seem that a majority of US voters also generally disagree with you (mostly driven by GOP voters, 65 % of which value new ideas more than experience and a proven record):


If Trump or Sanders do get elected, voters will discover another similarity with the Roman Republic-- our government is inherently conservative and resistant to reform/change.


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Inventor
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13 Jan 2016, 8:46 am

We missed our chance when the write in vote for Hunter S. Thompson failed to get him in the Presidents office.

There is a point of view that the Office of President is the People's only chance of stopping the insanity known to infect government. The Presidents only weapon is the Veto.

History is mostly about how the best of governments destroyed the Nation, Economy, Military, Houses, Lands, Borders, and the very life of the people.

The United States was founded by anti government types. Most of the Constitution is about how to limit government and its abuses.

The least crazy, moderate, go along to get along guy, is the last person who should be elected.

The President is the last line of defense from Congress, which was cast out of the fiery pit for stealing from Satan.

When Congress passes the Goldman Sachs written Economic Equality Act, only the President can stop it by refusing to sign.

Anyone in Congress can say, "I missed that vote, I had to take my sick puppy to the vet."

The President has no excuse, he signed it, or he did not.

We need a President who will scoop the Bill into a litter box and return it to Congress.

The best work of Congress is only a start. There are other opinions, other reasons, and all Congress produces is what 455 used car salesmen could agree to. They are not Wise, Statesmen, or God like. They are the most manipulative thieves and con men from their districts.

It is not State Craft, it is turd stacking.

We do not even get the good stuff, only slightly more than half have to agree to spew a foulness into law.

Just making them override a Veto brings the light of day and they have to tone it down to get the votes.

Our System was crafted for the sole purpose of protecting us from our System.

We need a President who will stand up to Congress, the Media, Political Parties, and other Countries.



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13 Jan 2016, 9:32 am

GoonSquad wrote:
Fnord wrote:
"Who watches the watchers?" ... indeed ... Congressmembers can already vote pay raises for themselves, with only a presidential veto to stop them.
Answered your own question...
And when the bill includes a pay raise for the president, then what happens?


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GoonSquad
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13 Jan 2016, 9:48 am

Ultimately, the voters watch everyone.


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Jacoby
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13 Jan 2016, 10:19 am

Kasich is a disgusting Bush-era neocon that wants to start WWIII with the Russians, he literally said we need to "punch the Russians in the nose" and start shooting down their jets in Syria with a no fly zone. the guy has a terrible terrible record, just go look at it. The only reason people seem to like him is that loads up on emotional platitudes and goes hard trying to be a "compassionate conservative", hopefully no one falls for that again.

Rand Paul is the only one really approaching sane but they just kicked him out of the next debate so for the Republicans, the only qausi-sane candidates are Ted Cruz and Donald Trump. Pretty much everyone else is establishment party line trash that wants to start WWIII. I will not be voting for a GOP establishment candidate, neoconservatism isn't just an extreme ideology it is a revolutionary one with its origins steeped in the Trotskyism. Once you move beyond the bluster with Trump isn't like any GOP candidate they've had in decades and is to the left the Democrats on some issues; socialized healthcare, taxes, trade, etc and I don't believe he is on any level socially or religiously conservative. Maybe I'm a sucker for believing it(more just looking at the other candidates) but I think Trump diplomacy and his 'art of the deal' could be very effective. The fact that him and Putin are cordial is almost enough for me to vote for him, the cold war is over and we need a president who can bring the Russians under our fold while respecting them as a great power with a great deal of influence no matter how much economic warfare we and the Saudis wage against their economy.

All I know is I will not under circumstances vote for a criminal like Hillary Clinton.

Jim Webb looks like he might be gearing up for an independent run, I'd be interested in him as a candidate. Never got a fair shake in the rigged DNC. The guy is decorated war hero, served as Secretary of the Navy under Reagan, he's one of the few sane voices on foreign policy in this country. When Webb was elected to the senate in 2006 as Democrat, he refused to shake Bush's hand and told him to bring his boy back from Iraq. He's a far left progressive ideologue, more of an old school guy. The Democrats strongest candidate and they ignored him. There lose, Webb is looking like he'll run as a independent and he could peel off votes from both candidates.



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13 Jan 2016, 10:03 pm

We need jobs, a better govt, less govt, less taxes, less unions, innovation, expansion of the middle class, decrease in immigration, and much less incentives for people to get and stay on welfare.


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