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Deltaville
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16 Jan 2016, 1:48 pm

Some political think tanks, especially left leaning organizations, have suggested that the bill of rights should be amended to exclude the 2nd Amendment. Their flagship argument is that it is a way of enforcing control over firearms in a more stringent manner, and consequently, reducing gun violence. This would have tremendous implications, for instance, the Supreme Court has ruled that the 14th amendment incorporates 2nd amendment privileges and imposes them upon the states. As a result, if a repeal of the 2nd Amendment ever materialized, it would create tremendous legal gaps.

Please discuss.


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Jacoby
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16 Jan 2016, 1:56 pm

Any serious attempt to screw with the 2nd Amendment would be the end of the country, secession and civil war altho it's pretty hard to win a civil war if everyone on the other side has a gun and you don't.



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16 Jan 2016, 2:03 pm

Deltaville wrote:
Some political think tanks, especially left leaning organizations, have suggested that the bill of rights should be amended to exclude the 2nd Amendment. Their flagship argument is that it is a way of enforcing control over firearms in a more stringent manner, and consequently, reducing gun violence. This would have tremendous implications, for instance, the Supreme Court has ruled that the 14th amendment incorporates 2nd amendment privileges and imposes them upon the states. As a result, if a repeal of the 2nd Amendment ever materialized, it would create tremendous legal gaps.

Please discuss.

The amendment process for the Constitution for the United States of America is:

Wikipedia.org wrote:
The framers of the Constitution, recognizing the difference between regular legislation and constitutional matters, intended that it be difficult to change the Constitution; but not so difficult as to render it an inflexible instrument of government. The amending process they devised, codified in Article Five of the United States Constitution, has two steps. Amendments to the Constitution must be properly Proposed and Ratified before becoming operative.

An amendment may be proposed and sent to the states for ratification by either:

The United States Congress, whenever a two-thirds majority in both the Senate and the House of Representatives deem it necessary;

OR

A national convention, called by Congress for this purpose, on the application of the legislatures of two-thirds (presently 34) of the states.

To become part of the Constitution, an amendment must be ratified by either (as determined by Congress):

The legislatures of three-fourths (presently 38) of the states, within the stipulated time period—if any;

OR

State ratifying conventions in three-fourths (presently 38) of the states, within the stipulated time period—if any.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... nstitution

As such, it is very difficult to accomplish an amendment of the existing Constitution. The current political climate among the states effectively prohibits adoption and/or ratification. The Founders made it this difficult intentionally.

This is why the president has never even mentioned the idea of a constitutional amendment. Instead, he nibbles around the edges and describes his actions as presidentially monumental. Bark versus bite.


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Last edited by AspieUtah on 16 Jan 2016, 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Deltaville
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16 Jan 2016, 2:03 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Any serious attempt to screw with the 2nd Amendment would be the end of the country, secession and civil war altho it's pretty hard to win a civil war if everyone on the other side has a gun and you don't.



I am not American, although I have great respect for the Bill of Rights. It is not perfect, but it is perhaps the most comprehensive constitutional document designed to uphold individual rights. It is certainly much more powerful then the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms that allows the government to circumvent certain legal rights with the so-called 'Notwithstanding clause.' I think any attempt to repeal the 2nd Amendment is bound to be an extremely unpopular move.

Here is an interesting link that I found: http://www.infowars.com/hillary-clinton ... nsidering/


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AspieUtah
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16 Jan 2016, 2:14 pm

Deltaville wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Any serious attempt to screw with the 2nd Amendment would be the end of the country, secession and civil war altho it's pretty hard to win a civil war if everyone on the other side has a gun and you don't.

I am not American, although I have great respect for the Bill of Rights. It is not perfect, but it is perhaps the most comprehensive constitutional document designed to uphold individual rights. It is certainly much more powerful then the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms that allows the government to circumvent certain legal rights with the so-called 'Notwithstanding clause.' I think any attempt to repeal the 2nd Amendment is bound to be an extremely unpopular move.

Here is an interesting link that I found: http://www.infowars.com/hillary-clinton ... nsidering/

You might remember the Canadian Firearm Registry ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_ ... s_Registry ), the failed attempt by the Canadian national government to require firearm registration. After almost 20 years, during which time Canadian citizens failed to comply in huge numbers, the costly program was terminated. I have great respect for those Canadian citizens who "Simply. Did. Not. Comply."


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16 Jan 2016, 2:18 pm

The political climate (outside the oval office :roll:) and national mood are not in favor of repealing the 2nd. Even suggested attempts since 2009 to curtail this right have resulted in huge gun and ammo buying surges, namely in 2009 and again in 2012-13.


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Deltaville
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16 Jan 2016, 2:19 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
Deltaville wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Any serious attempt to screw with the 2nd Amendment would be the end of the country, secession and civil war altho it's pretty hard to win a civil war if everyone on the other side has a gun and you don't.

I am not American, although I have great respect for the Bill of Rights. It is not perfect, but it is perhaps the most comprehensive constitutional document designed to uphold individual rights. It is certainly much more powerful then the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms that allows the government to circumvent certain legal rights with the so-called 'Notwithstanding clause.' I think any attempt to repeal the 2nd Amendment is bound to be an extremely unpopular move.

Here is an interesting link that I found: http://www.infowars.com/hillary-clinton ... nsidering/

You might remember the Canadian Firearm Registry ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_ ... s_Registry ), the failed attempt by the Canadian national government to require firearm registration. After almost 20 years, during which time Canadian citizens failed to comply in huge numbers, the costly program was terminated. I have great respect for those Canadian citizens who "Simply. Did. Not. Comply."


I think Quebec wanted to maintain it's own registry, although the Supreme Court of Canada nullified the attempt as ultra vires.


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Raptor
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16 Jan 2016, 2:32 pm

Deltaville wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
Deltaville wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Any serious attempt to screw with the 2nd Amendment would be the end of the country, secession and civil war altho it's pretty hard to win a civil war if everyone on the other side has a gun and you don't.

I am not American, although I have great respect for the Bill of Rights. It is not perfect, but it is perhaps the most comprehensive constitutional document designed to uphold individual rights. It is certainly much more powerful then the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms that allows the government to circumvent certain legal rights with the so-called 'Notwithstanding clause.' I think any attempt to repeal the 2nd Amendment is bound to be an extremely unpopular move.

Here is an interesting link that I found: http://www.infowars.com/hillary-clinton ... nsidering/

You might remember the Canadian Firearm Registry ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_ ... s_Registry ), the failed attempt by the Canadian national government to require firearm registration. After almost 20 years, during which time Canadian citizens failed to comply in huge numbers, the costly program was terminated. I have great respect for those Canadian citizens who "Simply. Did. Not. Comply."


I think Quebec wanted to maintain it's own registry, although the Supreme Court of Canada nullified the attempt as ultra vires.

Quebec is probably the most liberal province so go figure...


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16 Jan 2016, 2:33 pm

Unless the Second Amendment gives all Americans the right to possess every piece of equipment with which the U.S. possess, I think we know which side will win. And even if it did, well...who could afford a B-1 Bomber?


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16 Jan 2016, 3:06 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Unless the Second Amendment gives all Americans the right to possess every piece of equipment with which the U.S. possess, I think we know which side will win. And even if it did, well...who could afford a B-1 Bomber?

And when a bunch of bombers, fighter,ps, tanks, etc and their personally disappear and show up with the revolutionary side? Most military personnel are pro gun. Go figure that it's mostly pro gun people who would join organization who's main goal is warfare and not the anti gun don't want to fight people who join. Strange.

So if everyone or gun has a gun and everyone anti gun doesn't and they go to war who wins the side with guns or the side with no guns who run and hide?

The left is so far banning guns but expect the pro gun people(military and cops) to do the dirty work. Any gun ban or repeal of the 2nd should require all supporters to be the ones going house to house attempting to take guns, watch all support for such ideals drop.

Are you volunteering to go try to take some ex navy seals guns from him?



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16 Jan 2016, 3:12 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Unless the Second Amendment gives all Americans the right to possess every piece of equipment with which the U.S. possess, I think we know which side will win. And even if it did, well...who could afford a B-1 Bomber?


Maybe study up a little on guerilla warfare.
And, no, that doesnt mean apes throwing sh!t at each other.


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16 Jan 2016, 4:20 pm

Yeah, a small band of Chiricahua Apache held of a third of the U.S. for a short time. But that didn't end too well for them.


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16 Jan 2016, 4:25 pm

It's possible for a militia army to be formed, I guess -- one that is equal to the United States Army. But it would be a b***h to fund, I imagine.

By the way, for the record, I am not in favor of repealing the Second Amendment.


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16 Jan 2016, 4:26 pm

We don't need to completely repeal it. We just need to teach the conservatives that "Regulated Militia" (and what it means) is mentioned in the 2nd amendment not UNREGULATED LUNATICS.


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16 Jan 2016, 4:30 pm

The only way we're ever going to take back our government from the tyranny it's become is by a revolution of the mind -- not violent insurgency. Once the people realize they have the power to take it all back by demanding our elected officials represent us, first, or you're not getting f*****g reelected!


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16 Jan 2016, 4:31 pm

Deltaville wrote:
Some political think tanks, especially left leaning organizations, have suggested that the bill of rights should be amended to exclude the 2nd Amendment. Their flagship argument is that it is a way of enforcing control over firearms in a more stringent manner, and consequently, reducing gun violence. This would have tremendous implications, for instance, the Supreme Court has ruled that the 14th amendment incorporates 2nd amendment privileges and imposes them upon the states. As a result, if a repeal of the 2nd Amendment ever materialized, it would create tremendous legal gaps.

Please discuss.

Why would it create "tremendous legal gaps"?

A Supreme Court precedent would be overruled with the passage of a new amendment. The infamous Scott v. Sandford ruling wasn't overturned by a new decision by the Supreme Court, but by the passage of the 14th Amendment.