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JohnPowell
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12 Feb 2016, 5:27 pm


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techstepgenr8tion
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12 Feb 2016, 9:33 pm

It's definitely a 'depends who' and the interests involved but yes, I could see this being a fair portion of it.


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13 Feb 2016, 2:17 am

The US government is like a husband who batters his wife for years and then acts outraged and confused when she finally fights back. Truly maddening. (No, Im not a terrorist, in case you're wondering. Just saying that the US government is a guilty party that won't admit any wrongdoing.)



JohnPowell
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13 Feb 2016, 9:34 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
It's definitely a 'depends who' and the interests involved but yes, I could see this being a fair portion of it.


Stuff like the US increasing their support for Saddam after his worst crime. Supporting and training Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. Getting rid of leaders they dislike, and installing or supporting monsters when it suits them. Chomsky is the best person to listen to to find all examples.


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JohnPowell
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13 Feb 2016, 9:35 am

heavenlyabyss wrote:
The US government is like a husband who batters his wife for years and then acts outraged and confused when she finally fights back. Truly maddening. (No, Im not a terrorist, in case you're wondering. Just saying that the US government is a guilty party that won't admit any wrongdoing.)


Great description. You don't need to justify yourself!


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techstepgenr8tion
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13 Feb 2016, 10:56 am

The one thing I would have to add as a caveat to that WSJ research he mentions - ie. the suggestion that if we weren't perceived as propping up regressive dictators, I don't know when this video was made but if it was before the 'Arab Spring' - that put a particular damper on any optimism that letting the people oust these dictators would make things better.

I can't help but feel that any direct approach to say it's one factor is naive. Noam has his points, Harris and Dawkins have their points. Also clearly timing is everything, ie. if Islamism is turning up you know which ideology will be sweeping up any states that have disposed of their leadership. It's a bit like the middle-east's war with Islamism needs to be decisively won and liberties of the people secured on a more cultural level before they can start putting in the kinds of parliamentary democracies that the US tried to put in place in Iraq. That could be ten years, twenty year, I'd just really hope that with the advent of the internet and free flow of global information that it won't turn out to be as eternal a situation - ie. war between Sunni and Shiite over whether Mohammad had an uncle, regardless of what the state of affairs is in the outside world. If that turned out to be the case all we could do is keep investing in Africa to keep this stuff in the middle-east and prevent it from getting absorbed southward.


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JohnPowell
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13 Feb 2016, 1:45 pm

The US are still doing the same things, and then funding and/or supporting and/or encouraging coups and such, and not because they care about people "freedom".


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