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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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21 Feb 2016, 10:14 am

Is the reason humans are so weird compared to other animals, who seem much more interested in basic survival while humans are distracted by all sorts of things in their environment, to the point they engage in a variety of pointless activities that really have nothing to do with anything except releasing chemicals and hormones in the body, because thousands of years ago, our ancestors stumbled upon what is known as magic mushrooms or psilocybe cubensis and it altered their perception so much, they began to sought out even stronger plants, feeling it wasn't enough, they began cultivating their own plants, searching for an even more intense experience. These body altering plants had an influence on their DNA and started altering their evolution and that's why we see humans are so reliant on imagination and a feeling of magic while other animals are so busy trying to survive, they have no time for imagination and magic. They are simply too tired from all that hunting or foraging, dealing with harsh conditions in their environment.

Maybe it's these mind altering plants of all kinds that have led humans to be so "far out" compared to the other animals? Obsessions triggered by reliance on the chemicals on these plants also led to other discoveries, like agriculture and textile production. Who knows, maybe it even had something to do with selection of genes that enable us to have such a broad method of communication, including verbal.

Did this have something to do with how we evolved abstract thinking skills?

Any of you ever study this stuff? What do you all think?



LaetiBlabla
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21 Feb 2016, 10:40 am

I think that curiosity, not related to sex or food foraging, is indeed typically human.
I think that imagination, the fact of fancying things which do not actually exist is also typically human.

However, i think that sex & food motivation may have given (and still now gives)
- a reproductive advantage which favours the curious and imaginative individuals,
- and favours groups open to curiosity and imagination of other groups’ individuals.

Maybe we should feed monkeys with magic mushrooms to see what happens, just curious :wink:



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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21 Feb 2016, 2:35 pm

LaetiBlabla wrote:
I think that curiosity, not related to sex or food foraging, is indeed typically human.
I think that imagination, the fact of fancying things which do not actually exist is also typically human.

However, i think that sex & food motivation may have given (and still now gives)
- a reproductive advantage which favours the curious and imaginative individuals,
- and favours groups open to curiosity and imagination of other groups’ individuals.

Maybe we should feed monkeys with magic mushrooms to see what happens, just curious :wink:

What would need to happen with Chimpanzees is they would need to forage on their own, favoring the plants that affect the mind or chemical processes within the body, then see if they favor them long term, over many generations, then see how it affects their evolution. It would be interesting to see if there were any changes over time.



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21 Feb 2016, 2:45 pm

I'm a bit skeptical about this. Other animals are known to like drugs too. Lab rats desire drugs. Bears are also known to recognize and use a variety of herbal medicines when they're sick, including painkillers. Dolphins and bonobos desire sex just for pleasure too, so they use sex like a drug, just like our own species does.
Animals seek immediate pleasure too, but they only do after having satisfied more important priorities such as finding food and shelter.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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22 Feb 2016, 10:24 am

MissAlgernon wrote:
I'm a bit skeptical about this. Other animals are known to like drugs too. Lab rats desire drugs. Bears are also known to recognize and use a variety of herbal medicines when they're sick, including painkillers. Dolphins and bonobos desire sex just for pleasure too, so they use sex like a drug, just like our own species does.
Animals seek immediate pleasure too, but they only do after having satisfied more important priorities such as finding food and shelter.

Not sure about dolphins, but the bonobos aren't actually having sex, shaking hands, more like, only they don't use their hands. It's a greeting ritual. It's like hugging to them, or other displays of affection, similar to hugging or greeting by shaking hands, kisses on the cheeks. Humans do the same thing, just not in the same, exact way. Other animals greet and strengthen bonds as well only every species doesn't express it the same way.



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22 Feb 2016, 11:50 am

You start with a band of chimps. Get them to drop acid.

Then...presto chango...a million years from now the chimps will have evolved abstract thinking, and will be flying space shuttles.

Dont see how you get from A to B.

Sounds like Lamarkian evolution to me (inheritance of acquired characteristics). I dont see how natural selection would fit it into it.

Especially since chimps already live a natural pharmacy anyway (ie the African rainforest). They encounter the same whacky berries that our ancestors did.



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22 Feb 2016, 2:48 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Not sure about dolphins, but the bonobos aren't actually having sex, shaking hands, more like, only they don't use their hands. It's a greeting ritual. It's like hugging to them, or other displays of affection, similar to hugging or greeting by shaking hands, kisses on the cheeks. Humans do the same thing, just not in the same, exact way. Other animals greet and strengthen bonds as well only every species doesn't express it the same way.

They also do it for pleasure. They use pleasure as a way to relieve tensions in their group.
A lot of other animals can use sex for pleasure but they have to learn it. I've observed it with dogs.



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22 Feb 2016, 6:03 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Is the reason humans are so weird compared to other animals, who seem much more interested in basic survival while humans are distracted by all sorts of things in their environment, to the point they engage in a variety of pointless activities that really have nothing to do with anything except releasing chemicals and hormones in the body, because thousands of years ago, our ancestors stumbled upon what is known as magic mushrooms or psilocybe cubensis and it altered their perception so much, they began to sought out even stronger plants, feeling it wasn't enough, they began cultivating their own plants, searching for an even more intense experience. These body altering plants had an influence on their DNA and started altering their evolution and that's why we see humans are so reliant on imagination and a feeling of magic while other animals are so busy trying to survive, they have no time for imagination and magic. They are simply too tired from all that hunting or foraging, dealing with harsh conditions in their environment.

Maybe it's these mind altering plants of all kinds that have led humans to be so "far out" compared to the other animals? Obsessions triggered by reliance on the chemicals on these plants also led to other discoveries, like agriculture and textile production. Who knows, maybe it even had something to do with selection of genes that enable us to have such a broad method of communication, including verbal.

Did this have something to do with how we evolved abstract thinking skills?

Any of you ever study this stuff? What do you all think?




techstepgenr8tion
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22 Feb 2016, 7:15 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Did this have something to do with how we evolved abstract thinking skills?

Any of you ever study this stuff? What do you all think?


I remember Terence McKenna being fond of this theory but I also remember him being fond of the idea that we only developed introspect in the last few thousand years and hence, boggled by our thoughts, thought them to be the voice of God.

It wouldn't surprise me if psychedelics might have spurred us to use what we had in terms of apparatus for abstract thinking but I don't think that psychedelics actually built the structures. Seems like any other animal that eats mushrooms out in the woods stays pretty much the same aside getting disoriented, frightened, and perhaps a bit dehydrated from the experience. Seems reasonable that if we didn't have something to be kicked over that it wouldn't have had any lasting impact on us either.


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22 Feb 2016, 8:17 pm

I suggest all the conservatives eat some shrooms,then vote.


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techstepgenr8tion
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22 Feb 2016, 10:15 pm

Misslizard wrote:
I suggest all the conservatives eat some shrooms,then vote.

To numb the pain of voting for Trump or to get them kicked out of the poles for chasing pastel dots?


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22 Feb 2016, 10:31 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
I suggest all the conservatives eat some shrooms,then vote.

To numb the pain of voting for Trump or to get them kicked out of the poles for chasing pastel dots?

They will feel the primal urge to vote for Bernie.
if you are experienced you vote for Bernie.lol


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22 Feb 2016, 10:41 pm

See,just look how happy these conserves are.One good dose,and they become liberals and want to feed the birds.


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techstepgenr8tion
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22 Feb 2016, 10:52 pm

Misslizard wrote:
They will feel the primal urge to vote for Bernie.
if you are experienced you vote for Bernie.lol

Haha, very wishful.

As far as I've experience trips just make people more of what they are. They'd probably have very intensely Christian and patriotic American trips. They might even change their votes from Trump to Cruz or Carson!

Better to just bus loads of people of the other persuasion around to the poles and make sure they vote early and vote often!


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22 Feb 2016, 11:06 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
They will feel the primal urge to vote for Bernie.
if you are experienced you vote for Bernie.lol

Haha, very wishful.

As far as I've experience trips just make people more of what they are. They'd probably have very intensely Christian and patriotic American trips. They might even change their votes from Trump to Cruz or Carson!

Better to just bus loads of people of the other persuasion around to the poles and make sure they vote early and vote often!

Wow,that's scary as hell.A patriotic Christian trip?I had that in vacation bible school.lol It was the Koolaid.
No politics during my later trips,just looking at all the things I never noticed before.


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techstepgenr8tion
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23 Feb 2016, 6:18 am

I believe Thales when he said 'Know thyself and you will know the universe and the gods'. This definitely applies with hallucinogens far more than any other class of drug I've been familiar with. In my own case though, regardless of how much it caused me to use my own mind more effectively, it didn't cause huge political swings. I know a lot of people similarly who ate upward of 1,000 hits of acid in their lives, did a lot of other stuff as well, and while some of them ended up as lawyers they were relatively conservative before and about as if not slightly more conservative after.


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