What can we do about the high male suicide rate?

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http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... dy-failure

In the UK the male suicide rate is over 3 times as high as women. It has increased from 35 years ago and women's suicide rate has almost halved in the same time. It is a similar picture elsewhere in the west.

The biggest rise is males in their 40s. It would be a good idea to compare this with the peak age for women, to see if they line up or not.

Obviously, I care about all suicide. However how can we specifically help males?

The obvious theory is males are perceived as reluctant to talk about their feelings.

Whilst this is a reasonable hypothesis, I'm naturally cautious around 'obvious' theories. For one these perceptions are sometimes proved wrong or miss the main issue. So I want to be open to all possibilities.

I wonder how much is physiological and how much is situational. "Manopause" is often scoffed over, but recent evidence shows that is a real thing:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/m ... ought.html

I wonder if this physiological change might have a compounding impact or if it is nothing to do with that.

It could be a combination of factors, both situational and physiological and predisposition to depression. It is interesting that the geographical spread has reversed with London and the South East being highest 30 years ago, now it is highest in the North.

The north has generally lagged economically. However 30 years ago industry was in decline it has complete declined now. The north was the heartland of industry. The jobs market has always been more diverse in London. However, how to explain the situation 30 years ago based on economics? Also some areas in the North have been revived and are now much more diverse economically than ever, but post-industrial. So a more precise map would be useful.

I would have thought that NE would be worse the NW, however I don't think it is that simple and I'm not an expert on the North. If a suicidal episode is triggered by situational change, the relative and individual change might be more relevant than the general standard of living in an area.

If men aren't talking about their problems. How do we know that talk therapy would be more effective than other methods like CBT or combinations of methods?

I think more research need to be done on the causes and possible solutions.

More research, more care, more attention. Not enough is being done, and I don't think there's much else to say on the matter besides that.

Yes but how to go about it, where to start?

I would not just leave it at that. There is plenty to say on the matter. I wouldn't just leave it for the politicians to sort out. We must guard against it just becoming a political football.

It is one thing talking up mental health, however there is a differnce between seeming to care and a real effort to solve this problem.

I agree there's a lot that needs to be done, but as with everything you have to start broad and begin branching out once you have a foothold. I think your last phrase sums it up well, that there is a wide gap between "caring" and caring. More services need to be made available, but I honestly wouldn't know where to begin. Maybe the best place to start is to simply raise awareness...?

I'd think you'd start with the leading causes of male depression and work your way out from there? Whether we're meaning-driven animals and just not finding it anymore, whether we feel significantly stripped of our abilities to give back, whether the myths we were raised on are blowing up? I feel like I should be dropping a Fight Club quote somewhere in here but you get my drift - some internal need needs to be jogged and for whatever reason it's finding it's outlet less and less.

Perhaps there just needs to generally be more research into these kinds of fields? It may not strictly be true, but I heard that neurological disorders and disabilities weren't really treated as such until only a few years ago. Before, things like depression and anxiety were deemed as minor issues. Something like that, anyway.

I think it's in large part due to the fact men are far more naturally capable and inclined for violence. Suicide is just another desperate form of violence.

Not sure if this applies in the UK, but in the US I believe a cause is the vast imbalance in the divorce laws. A divorce is almost always catastrophic for the man financially, with any kids, property etc. You put that into a mid-life crisis and you get fertile ground for suicide.

We want to strive for equality in this world? We should be striving across the board in all directions then. This is one area where the times have changed, but the laws haven't.

I also think men do require more in the way of fulfillment of our masculine instincts that society is slowly taking away. Maybe some men are not inclined in this way. But for the ones that are it can be a maddening trapped feeling that makes suicide seem logical. How can this be fixed?

There are clearly a variety of factors, at a variety of levels, at play.

For many, there is an ever widening gap between what one is expected or instructed to want and achieve and what is actually, practically possible/attainable. I think something really needs to be done to close this gap. Given the amount of money invested in and made from this gap, I can't see that happening.

Suicide is like an ultimatum. For women, issuing an ultimatum is the beginning of negotiations. For men, ultimatums end all negotiations. Also, women seem to be process-oriented, while men seem to be result-oriented.

Thus, by analogy, an attempt at suicide is a "cry for help" in the process of acquiring support for women. For men, it is a singular act that results in the final good-bye.

What can we do about it? First, identify the conditions that lead men to commit suicide. Second, identify men who are experiencing these conditions. Third, intervene in a non-judgmental way that not just presents alternatives to suicide, but actually provides those alternatives.

Disclaimer: These are just my opinions, and generalized ones at that. However, they are based on reading the opinions of experts, who give their opinions after suicides and suicide attempts have occurred.

The stigma of being depressed and seeking help prevents many from getting treatment.Im guessing they fear being perceived as weak or a loser.More access to mental health care to those who can't afford it and encouragement to seek it.I think it's easier for women to discuss their problems openly and trust the counselor, where men feel they must be strong,silent and solve their own problems or they are a failure.

Maybe for some ... my guess is that when most men decide to commit suicide, it is after considering and rejecting all of the alternatives they know. As I said, suicide for men seems to be an act of finality, and not a call for help.

Present more alternatives, and provide them, before the man makes that final decision.

Letting men have control of our own bodies and minds would be a good place to start.

If we just go by what society *needs*, there has not been a single economic downturn in the US during my life. The UK is doing pretty well also. There has been no mass-unemployment, and there have been no long lines at soup kitchens.

There's really no justification for pushing very underage schoolboys into high-stress career paths that are only in demand in the most frivolous sense (like making iPhones that people will just throw away in a few years).

If we use the same standard of need that moralistic scolds use when reminding men that we don't need sex, I could be working three days a week while living comfortably and producing enough extra resources to support an equitable share of nascent generations' expenses and save for my retirement.

That would be at the top of my list, anyway.

Men do tend to commit suicide more often than women. Women will attempt suicide, but are less often successful because of the methods chosen. I find that the men I know are less communicative about their feelings than women, and less likely to seek help or emotional support, if needed.

Males also seem to not be as aware of their feelings as women are. They may know that they feel bad, but not be able to identify the cause. Signs of depression also tend to be different in men.

I think education would be a good place to start. Depression in men needs to be better recognized. People should be made aware of the signs of suicidal ideation in both men and women. Men also need to be able to feel that it's ok for them to have these feelings, and to communicate them.

I agree in that I think men are less likely to seek help.

Stigma would be the least of my worries. Most psychiatric "care" for men is like the pep-talks that shell-shocked troops were given in WWII to get them to go back out and die. It starts with the assumption that the guy's sole reason for existing is to be useful to somebody else. I've seen men diagnosed with depression when they were more resilient, optimistic, realistic and patient than the crabby, demanding people who pushed them to seek "help." The right prescription in those cases would have been a good divorce lawyer.

Last edited by NobodyKnows on 04 Feb 2016, 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

... says the woman, citing opinions from her own perspective.

We men are aware of our feelings. We also know that women tend to tell us that we don't know what real feelings feel like. They also belittle us for our feelings or dismiss our feelings entirely. Our moms train us early to not cry when we're hurt or sad. Our dads tell us that real men don't cry at all (yet we sometimes catch them crying when they think that no one is around).

Yes, we are aware of our feelings. We also know that most people really don't give a damn about what we feel, as long as we act happy and/or romantic.

Let us express all of our feelings without hearing sexist comments like "Males are not as aware of their feelings as women are", and maybe fewer of us will contemplate suicide as a last resort.