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OdysseusNemo
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02 Oct 2016, 12:28 pm

I don't want to get into policy debates but Trump is a massive narcissist and a sociopath or psychopath just saying.

Trump's ghostwriter/biographer: "If he were writing The Art of the Deal today, Schwartz said, it would be a very different book with a very different title. Asked what he would call it, he answered, 'The Sociopath'."

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/ ... -tells-all

"George Simon, a clinical psychologist who conducts seminars on manipulative behavior, says Trump is 'so classic that I’m archiving video clips of him to use in workshops because there’s no better example' of narcissism. 'Otherwise I would have had to hire actors and write vignettes. He’s like a dream come true.'"

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... mp/480771/

The Donald himself: "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/vid ... otes-video

You guys vote how you like but Trump is a pathological liar who is putting on an act for your emotions and you'd be smart not to fall for it. His facial expressions show no normal human empathy cues and the reason is most def not autism. I kinda admire him because he's great at manipulating people and he actually has had so much wealth all his life that he doesn't really need to mask his lack of conscience/empathy. But if you're gonna stare someone saying he's an intraspecies predator right in your face and make this guy your leader well don't be surprised when he fricking eats you. Oh and the guy has massive ego/self-esteem deficits and will freak out in oversensitivity to the slightest criticism. He's not just evil he's massively insecure impulsive evil.

Bonus points: he literally doesn't see any reason not to throw nuclear weapons around. Read that again-- he doesn't get any moral emotion alarms going off at mass murder PLUS he's not cognitively correcting for why on the consequences that would be bad. He's not just pro-torture but doesn't make a cognitive pause or use distancing language when talking about it cause it doesn't bother him. He puts down crippled veterans who spent years in POW camps because well people who get tortured for their country don't win wars. All of this makes perfect intuitive sense to me if I also didn't have the brains or common sense of a brick suffering from fetal alcohol syndrome.

I am frankly gobsmacked that Trump supporters don't see this I mean he's not even freaking hiding it.


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GGPViper
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02 Oct 2016, 12:35 pm

I have little patience for the art of armchair diagnosis.

I'll take the more modest route and insinuate that the Gentleman Currently Campaigning for Presidential Office in The United States of America on Behalf of the Republican Party is of Questionable Moral Fiber.



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02 Oct 2016, 6:40 pm

I read half of the essays in this book yesterday, which situate Trump in an age of narcissism. They are contextualised, as the title suggests, and express concern that support for him and others like him represent something far more dangerous than his impact on only USA politics and ethos, with reasoned observations from a range of complex thinkers:

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3133 ... ent-danger



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02 Oct 2016, 6:44 pm

Even without reading at the link presented, I agree with B19 on this, that what is concerning are his supporters who seem to admire him for that. Trump is a master at this, and now his supporters get to watch and learn, something I have been seeing a lot of lately. You really have to handle Trump and his supporters like how one must deal with an abuser, very carefully and with self-awareness.

I am now following your link.


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02 Oct 2016, 9:45 pm

I don't think Trump's an angel, but I'm reluctant to give an armchair diagnosis like that.

Plus I think antisocial behavior and politicians probably go together anyway simply because politics, especially in modern America is "warfare continued without arms" (Hillary might qualify as well).

Plus no one is completely immune from antisocial conduct (since a lot of it originates in our more "primal evolutionary urges), and if a person knows they are more likely to get away with it (as I'm sure many people in power like Trump do) they're more likely to engage in it, hence the saying that "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely".

I wouldn't say I'm "sympathetic", but I suppose I feel that if many average Joes, who are decent citizens in day-to-day life switched places with Trump or any politician, they'd become just as corrupt. And corrupt politicians and rulers historically seem to be the rule rather than the exception.

So it's hard for me to single out Trump supporters unless I was under the delusion that Hillary was a perfect saint.



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02 Oct 2016, 9:59 pm

one can just as easily say that Hillary and Bill are sociopath narcissists

as far as I know Trump hasn't raped and murdered anyone so I think the Clinton's have him beat

i think it's pretty sad how much Trump haters have taken to attacking his supporters now, talk about bullies!



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02 Oct 2016, 10:51 pm

In other news, water is wet.


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02 Oct 2016, 11:52 pm

Plus I'd rather have an obvious sociopath than a covert one. A wolf out in the open is less dangerous than one in sheep's clothing.



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03 Oct 2016, 1:23 am

Everyone's a narcissist nowadays.... The terms "psychopath"/"sociopath" also are too often used as meaningless insults used against anyone unliked as a justification to treat fellow human beings, who like you are also made in the image of God, like trash.


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03 Oct 2016, 1:27 am

here's an article from Patrick J. Kennedy on the subject awhile ago castigating this use of rhetoric


https://www.washingtonpost.com/postever ... ump-crazy/

Quote:
Is Donald Trump experiencing a mental illness? That’s one question making the rounds these days. The answer is: I don’t know. And neither do the commentators, tweeters and psychiatrists — both licensed and armchair — who’ve diagnosed him as “crazy,” a “psychopath,” not “sane,” having “narcissistic personality disorder” and a “screw loose.”

What I do know is that we ought to stop casually throwing around terms like “crazy” in this campaign and our daily lives. The president of the American Psychiatric Association has said that even for professionals, these sorts of diagnoses, made from afar, are “unethical” and “irresponsible.” And they only serve to demean and undercut people.

“Crazy” is never uttered with compassion. I have never heard it used in the context of trying to get someone the treatment they need. When that language is commonplace, it becomes that much harder for those experiencing mental illness to openly seek treatment that works. It discriminates, in subtle and overt ways, and extends its reach into schools, workplaces and the health-care system, where we still don’t provide routine mental health exams. When we use that word the way we have, we perpetuate the dangerous, “separate and unequal” treatment of these illnesses, and continue to pretend that the brain isn’t part of the body.

With all of this damaging rhetoric floating around in our national political discourse, especially what we hear from and about Trump, it’s no wonder that people remain silent and the suffering continues. We alienate our friends and family members. We further separate ourselves from kids with ADHD, a colleague with anxiety, a neighbor with depression. It keeps people who have brain diseases, including substance use disorders, in the closet. We go against President John F. Kennedy’s declaration, in signing the Community Mental Health Act of 1963, that those with mental illnesses “need no longer be alien to our affections or beyond the help of our communities.”

So if you’ve got a criticism about Trump’s temperament, fine. But let’s eliminate the name-calling and grade-school bullying.


I believe this is called ableism right? You'll should be ashamed!



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03 Oct 2016, 1:37 am

It is used too much, yeah, waaay too much.




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03 Oct 2016, 3:09 am

Sociopath or not, Trump's ghost writer had had first hand knowledge of Trump, and I have no doubt that he's sincere about Trump's narcissistic personality.


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03 Oct 2016, 3:26 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Sociopath or not, Trump's ghost writer had had first hand knowledge of Trump, and I have no doubt that he's sincere about Trump's narcissistic personality.


Maybe, but can Johnson win? He'd be better than Trump and Billary, but he probably wont and whether through divided conservatives or outright election fraud Clinton is going to be roaming the White House once again.


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OdysseusNemo
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03 Oct 2016, 3:57 am

Trump's personal biographer wrote:
Lying is second nature to him,” Schwartz said. “More than anyone else I have ever met, Trump has the ability to convince himself that whatever he is saying at any given moment is true, or sort of true, or at least ought to be true.”

This isn't just psychopathic lying -- psychopaths lie easily and may lie casually to achieve objectives or to f**k with people but the protoypical pyschopath is highly rational and firmly grounded in reality. This is a guy who not not only throwaway lies as fast as he talks but continually deludes himself that the lies he wants to believe is real. Thats hardcore pathological lying. He's so insulated from reality he doesn't know the difference between his ego aggrandising fantasies and the real world. Trump just believes what makes him feel big and powerful & feeds on little people who feel vicariously big through him and want to join the fantasy. Then he uses their dependence on his fantasy to ride to power and s**t all over them

I totally disagree with this taboo about using this psychological terms to describe politicians. I mean that makes some sense in casual conversation to keep bullying down and be nice to peoples feelings -- but when it comes to major leaders the stakes are too high. It is totally relevant to say out loud that a guy who will control your life has no conscience and a huge fragile ego and as a result is totally likely to f**k over people who piss him off. And I totally think we shouldn't let only academics talk about this stuff as IMHO half the time smart laypeople know their s**t better than credentialed professionals who have to fit into establishments.

Anyway the social taboo against calling out people for this s**t works to the advantage of narcissists/sociopaths/psychopaths who are good at masking so I guess it's your call people. Personally I think we should shout "malignant narcissist" to the rooftops cause it's probs the most accurate label and sounds really awful and I do not want this guy running the world's biggest military


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03 Oct 2016, 4:07 am

Iamaparakeet wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Sociopath or not, Trump's ghost writer had had first hand knowledge of Trump, and I have no doubt that he's sincere about Trump's narcissistic personality.


Maybe, but can Johnson win? He'd be better than Trump and Billary, but he probably wont and whether through divided conservatives or outright election fraud Clinton is going to be roaming the White House once again.


I don't think Clinton needs to cheat to win, as Trump is making a victory for himself all that much less likely.
As for Johnson - I think he's interested in domestic policies like legalizing pot and prostitution, but has little knowledge of the world at large.


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03 Oct 2016, 4:26 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Iamaparakeet wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Sociopath or not, Trump's ghost writer had had first hand knowledge of Trump, and I have no doubt that he's sincere about Trump's narcissistic personality.


Maybe, but can Johnson win? He'd be better than Trump and Billary, but he probably wont and whether through divided conservatives or outright election fraud Clinton is going to be roaming the White House once again.


I don't think Clinton needs to cheat to win, as Trump is making a victory for himself all that much less likely.
As for Johnson - I think he's interested in domestic policies like legalizing pot and prostitution, but has little knowledge of the world at large.


So it is sadly certain Hillary Clinton will reign again, this time directly rather than just through stupid Bill. If Trump's a "psychopath" just because he's a liar like all career politicians are, then Hillary trumps Trump and should be declared a super-psycho.


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