The Cuban Revolution is not a precious relic to be preserved

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MaxE
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20 Mar 2016, 4:21 pm

Lately I often see opinions on the internet to the effect that US tourists and corporations are about to "invade" Cuba, and in the process, "ruin" it.

I believe some of the motivation for saying this is simply to annoy Americans (by which I specifically mean citizens of the US). However, I sincerely think those who talk this way make themselves appear very foolish. I will guess that they've visited Cuba as tourists and been absolutely CHARMED by its shabbiness, the museum-piece automobiles, the cheap prostitutes, the retro entertainment, the lack of commercialization, etc.

I recommend going back there and asking folks how they really feel about living in such a utopia. I suggest learning quite a bit of Spanish. BTW don't try to contact them on line as few have access to the Internet (how quaint!).

Or better yet, tell them you have seriously considered emigrating to Cuba and becoming a citizen so you can help further the humanitarian goals of the Revolution, then watch their reaction. Or gush over a 1956 Chevy and tell its owner how much you envy him.

Well yeah it's possible that on some future day McDonald's will open some "restaurants" in Cuba. So far as I'm concerned, if Cubans want to eat there it's their privilege. If Western intellectuals are lucky, Cubans will want nothing to do with Big Macs and McDonald's will soon go away. But that should be the Cubans' choice, not Sociology professors in the UK or Canada. Speaking of Canada, you might be aware that a very successful US retail chain (Target) tried opening stores in Canada and they failed miserably and had to leave. Nobody has ever been forced to embrace US culture or commerce so stop being so afraid.

Or trade in your late-model Audi for a 1956 Chevy in mint condition from Havana!


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Jacoby
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20 Mar 2016, 4:37 pm

Cuba has always been connected to America, it has only been this past half century that we haven't. To say Cuba will be ruined is either praise for their oppressive communist system or condemnation of globalism and the commercialization follows it like it has America over this past half century. Maybe they're right.



0_equals_true
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20 Mar 2016, 4:47 pm

I went to Cuba in the 90s when I lived in Jamaica. It was no paradise, there was food shortages. This was when it was only just starting to open up. Even that limited enterprise that allowed at the time (limited restaurants in peoples homes) still was reliant an on black market for meat.

The well paying jobs like the tourist position were held by party members. Someone offering to braid tourist hairs on the sly they, might be a doctor, but get paid more braiding hair. This what a Costa Rican family who went to the same hotel us, told us happened to them.

On the other hand there was no justification for the embargo going on this long, and no advantage to to it. It is not in US national interests.

Recent reforms have improved things a lot. There is far more enterprise. the main problem now is the crumbling infrastructure an housing, which is romanticised, but practically a nightmare.

One thing you should know is despite the rhetoric, they love Americans and American culture, especially baseball. So there is hope of resolution.



MaxE
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20 Mar 2016, 6:04 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
I went to Cuba in the 90s when I lived in Jamaica. It was no paradise, there was food shortages...
The 90s were a nadir for Cuba, it may have seemed genuinely awful then rather than charming. AFAIK people there aren't actually going hungry nowadays

0_equals_true wrote:
On the other hand there was no justification for the embargo going on this long, and no advantage to to it. It is not in US national interests.
Very few Americans support the embargo, but it is kept alive by the dickheads in Congress. Although I'll admit it may have served a useful purpose several decades back

0_equals_true wrote:
One thing you should know is despite the rhetoric, they love Americans and American culture, especially baseball. So there is hope of resolution.
I rather suspect most Cubans consider baseball to be a Cuban sport, they've certainly dominated it for decades.


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MaxE
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21 Mar 2016, 7:39 am

Actually, the tourist situation in modern Cuba could be compared to the YA novel Running Out of Time by Margaret Peterson Haddix.


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21 Mar 2016, 1:44 pm

MaxE wrote:
0_equals_true wrote:
I went to Cuba in the 90s when I lived in Jamaica. It was no paradise, there was food shortages...
The 90s were a nadir for Cuba, it may have seemed genuinely awful then rather than charming. AFAIK people there aren't actually going hungry nowadays


Starvation wasn't a major problem back then either. It was just product like type of meat were rationed, except on the black market.

This was the early day of private enterprise. They were allowed small restaurant in their home, I think 10 people at a time max. You rang up before hand, pretty set menu. The lady said, if you want pork she needed to know in advance. I think that was from the black market.



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21 Mar 2016, 1:58 pm

My father wish to meet with his old opposite number when he was serving in Angola.

The civil war was the proxy war that the US found with the USSR, which Cuba was involved with.

The guy had retired by then. Poor guy didn't get leave for Angola for 10 years.

When they met up again it had to be arranged, it was cleared through the powers that be. We went to a government restaurant, not just government run but for party members. Chances are we were overlooked, but that was to be expected. It was nice to have old friends meeting up together, what real diplomacy is about. The food was pretty bad though, much better stuff in those small home restaurants.

That guy was a committed true believer, but they were still candid and friendly with each other.



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21 Mar 2016, 1:59 pm

My father spent part of his childhood in Cuba, before the revolution. My grandfather worked for Shell.



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23 Mar 2016, 7:31 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Cuba has always been connected to America, it has only been this past half century that we haven't. To say Cuba will be ruined is either praise for their oppressive communist system or condemnation of globalism and the commercialization follows it like it has America over this past half century. Maybe they're right.


True, before the revolution, and in the former half of the 20th century, Cuba was essentially Las Vegas on an island where everybody spoke spanish. Gambling was legal as was prostitution. During the 1950's Las Vegas started to develop steadily, and after the Cuban Revolution, and the Missle crisis and subsequent embargo, is when the development of Las Vegas really took off.


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Jacoby
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23 Mar 2016, 7:42 pm

that picture of Obama getting held up like a trophy fish by Raul Castro is embarrassing



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24 Mar 2016, 1:31 pm

Jacoby wrote:
that picture of Obama getting held up like a trophy fish by Raul Castro is embarrassing


Like it or not, Obama despite his faults has tried to mend two of the biggest international rift in modern US history.



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24 Mar 2016, 6:02 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
that picture of Obama getting held up like a trophy fish by Raul Castro is embarrassing


Like it or not, Obama despite his faults has tried to mend two of the biggest international rift in modern US history.


I actually support what he's doing in Cuba, I think it long overdue the embargo ends and we shouldn't try to force our system on Cuba however that's still an awful image of the President of the United States in my opinion. I'm guessing Raul Castro rose his and hand and Obama didn't want his hand raised so he limp armed it but it came out looking way worse than if he did it enthusiastically. Too bad Fidel couldn't of met with him, he was a lot more of an intellectual than his brother who is more of a military man. Both of them have to be ancient by now.

Image



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24 Mar 2016, 6:06 pm

Fidel would have given a 5+ hour speech.

I think wouldn't have worked with Fidel, we wouldn't be here.



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24 Mar 2016, 6:22 pm

I agree, I think Fidel is probably a lot more intimidating to meet 1 on 1 and that press conference probably would of went a little differently. I think part of the deal for Obama to go down there was that Fidel stay out of sight while he's there, I was surprised we hadn't seen or read anything from him for what is a momentous moment in Cuban history. For whatever reason it seems like our government likes to keep grudges against specific people even tho Raul Castro is his brother and was right by his side during the revolution and was the top military man in the country for 50 years.



MaxE
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26 Mar 2016, 8:55 am

Jacoby wrote:
that picture of Obama getting held up like a trophy fish by Raul Castro is embarrassing
I would say that the whole visit was intended for propaganda purposes. Although I am not a citizen of Cuba, I can imagine some younger person whose whole life has been spent being told how he must admire everything the Castro brothers, with their scraggly beards and green fatigues have done (and possibly Che Guevara who is more of a cultural icon than a real historical figure). Then the Obama family lands. In contrast to Fidel and Raul, they exemplify high fashion and it was no accident they brought their two daughters with them. I can imagine many young Cubans now have a photo of them on their bulletin board. As distasteful as the Obamas may seem to you, to those isolated Cubans they embody Camelot. I think this will make the job of demonizing Obama and the US in general much harder than it already is.

The current political order in Cuba is doomed, whether European and Canadian tourists and leftist intellectuals like it or not.

BTW I would interpret that "embarrassing" photo as clear evidence of Obama's lack of genuine admiration of any sort for Raul. If it's embarrassing, then it's embarrassing for Raul.

Oh yeah, imagine any of the leading US Presidential candidates in the current election in the same situation. Bernie? (who has probably always had a soft spot for the Cuban Revolution anyway). The timing couldn't have been better.

I guess I can't really find anything negative to say about this trip. I even got in a dig at Bernie Sanders. That must put me squarely in the "unpopular political views" category.


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26 Mar 2016, 9:11 am

MaxE wrote:
The current political order in Cuba is doomed, whether European and Canadian tourists and leftist intellectuals like it or not.


The current political order isthe first step in serious reform, the process started in the 90s. It is not new.

If you mean the Castro's are doomed, well that has true for a long time. It was never going on forever, especially after the cold war.

Obviously each side is aiming to get political capital out of it. However the overall message is still positive.

The US maintaining the embargo wouldn't have helped.

I wonder why you lump Canadian and European tourists in with leftist intellectuals.

The tourist market in Cuba is basically the few cities like Havana, which you re often going to some of the pre-regime haunts like cabaret. Then there is adventure, and all inclusive beach resorts. There is some historical stuff too, but mainly this is for curiosity's sake.

Btw thousand of US citizens enter every year, they just don't fly direct.