Arguably, Trump voters and Socialists want the same thing

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MaxE
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30 May 2016, 9:21 am

I just posted this Conservatism As Understood By A Non-Conservative so I could support the argument I want to make in this post.

The argument is that Trump voters and Socialists basically want the same thing. They both believe they have been deprived of a quality of life to which they consider themselves entitled. Trump voters believe themselves entitled because they are native-born, God-fearing Americans. Socialists believe themselves entitled because it is unacceptable for the top 1% of the rich to control 38% of the wealth.

Both groups are voting for candidates they expect will use Presidential authority to right these inequities.

I wanted to make a contrast to genuine conservatives (hence the previous post) who I don't think share this point of view. I think the mistake the Republican party has made is to assume that the people who in the past voted for G.W. Bush or Mitt Romney did so because they embraced what the Republican "elite" views as conservatism. However the Trump phenomenon may demonstrate that "true conservatives" are a much smaller segment of the population than they had thought. In the past, these voters simply voted against candidates they despise and fear such as Clinton, Obama, Kerry, and Gore.

I suppose you can't fully understand a person's politics simply by considering who they vote against.


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LoveNotHate
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30 May 2016, 9:46 am

Right on.

I've been calling Trump a Socialist for months on this site.

His ideas are right from the Socialist party platform.

-end free trade agreements
-huge taxes on the rich
-healthcare as a right
-tariffs on imports to "protect jobs"
-curtail "cheap labor" worker programs
-supports raising the minimum wage



DGLights
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30 May 2016, 11:52 am

Trump is using similar rhetoric to Sanders, but really he is fairly average by the standards of Republican candidates. Every vaguely socialist thing he has said has been contradicted by his policies and later statements. For example, he says the minimum wage should be higher, but wants to abolish the federal minimum wage.
Trying to make sense of anything he is saying is impossible, as he lacks a coherent ideology. He just says whatever happens to be politically expedient. It is a rather lazy of populism.
Trump and Sanders' supporters don't want the same thing. Sanders' supporters want equality, Trump's supporters want to be privileged.


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MaxE
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30 May 2016, 1:48 pm

DGLights wrote:
...Every vaguely socialist thing he has said has been contradicted by his policies and later statements...
It wasn't my intention to label Trump as a Socialist, simply to say that those voting for him and those voting for Socialism i.e. Sanders have the same motivation. That is, putting a hero in charge who will make everything right for them.


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30 May 2016, 11:46 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Right on.

I've been calling Trump a Socialist for months on this site.

His ideas are right from the Socialist party platform.

-end free trade agreements
-huge taxes on the rich
-healthcare as a right
-tariffs on imports to "protect jobs"
-curtail "cheap labor" worker programs
-supports raising the minimum wage


He'd be a lot more palatable to me if he would have just stuck to the list you rattled off. But as he suddenly took a swing to the right in regard to seeing fellow Americans as the "other," to be feared and driven out, I have no use for him.


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Jacoby
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31 May 2016, 12:50 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Right on.

I've been calling Trump a Socialist for months on this site.

His ideas are right from the Socialist party platform.

-end free trade agreements
-huge taxes on the rich
-healthcare as a right
-tariffs on imports to "protect jobs"
-curtail "cheap labor" worker programs
-supports raising the minimum wage


He'd be a lot more palatable to me if he would have just stuck to the list you rattled off. But as he suddenly took a swing to the right in regard to seeing fellow Americans as the "other," to be feared and driven out, I have no use for him.


You have no use for critical thought of your own and will vote for who the party bosses tell you too, if Hillary had an R behind her name you'd despise her. You mischaracterize Trump's campaign, listen to what he actually talks about at his rallies and you'd find it's not media caricature you've been lead to believe.



Kraichgauer
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31 May 2016, 1:17 am

Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Right on.

I've been calling Trump a Socialist for months on this site.

His ideas are right from the Socialist party platform.

-end free trade agreements
-huge taxes on the rich
-healthcare as a right
-tariffs on imports to "protect jobs"
-curtail "cheap labor" worker programs
-supports raising the minimum wage


He'd be a lot more palatable to me if he would have just stuck to the list you rattled off. But as he suddenly took a swing to the right in regard to seeing fellow Americans as the "other," to be feared and driven out, I have no use for him.


You have no use for critical thought of your own and will vote for who the party bosses tell you too, if Hillary had an R behind her name you'd despise her. You mischaracterize Trump's campaign, listen to what he actually talks about at his rallies and you'd find it's not media caricature you've been lead to believe.


You don't know me very well. I only vote for candidates with a D behind their names because of the political ideology behind it. And it's because of the political ideology behind the R that I vote against the candidates with it. If Republicans would actually care about poor and disabled people, and not coddle racist trash, maybe I'd vote for them. I have never, ever, listened to any party boss. Stop listening to my WP critics who go out of their way to defame me.


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Jacoby
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31 May 2016, 1:40 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Right on.

I've been calling Trump a Socialist for months on this site.

His ideas are right from the Socialist party platform.

-end free trade agreements
-huge taxes on the rich
-healthcare as a right
-tariffs on imports to "protect jobs"
-curtail "cheap labor" worker programs
-supports raising the minimum wage


He'd be a lot more palatable to me if he would have just stuck to the list you rattled off. But as he suddenly took a swing to the right in regard to seeing fellow Americans as the "other," to be feared and driven out, I have no use for him.


You have no use for critical thought of your own and will vote for who the party bosses tell you too, if Hillary had an R behind her name you'd despise her. You mischaracterize Trump's campaign, listen to what he actually talks about at his rallies and you'd find it's not media caricature you've been lead to believe.


You don't know me very well. I only vote for candidates with a D behind their names because of the political ideology behind it. And it's because of the political ideology behind the R that I vote against the candidates with it. If Republicans would actually care about poor and disabled people, and not coddle racist trash, maybe I'd vote for them. I have never, ever, listened to any party boss. Stop listening to my WP critics who go out of their way to defame me.


I can't accept this answer from somebody that is going to vote for Hillary Clinton who actually has a record and a bad one at that especially when it comes to these same outgroups that you completely base your vote off(which is a very privileged way of voting I might add; I care more the economy, jobs, staying out of war, etc. than I do the feelings of whatever group)



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31 May 2016, 1:52 am

The key problem with Trump is it's clear he doesn't actually care about the American people, he just wants to win as a mark of status. That's why his platform is so inconsistent, he just says want people want to hear, and he's playing to the crowd of angry, terrible people, with occasional bait for more reasonable people. He built his empire off of exploiting loopholes and crashing local economies for his own gain, that's not the type of person you want to run a country. He's a liar and a hypocrite who knows how to play the game to trick people into thinking he's honest.

MaxE wrote:
They both believe they have been deprived of a quality of life to which they consider themselves entitled. Trump voters believe themselves entitled because they are native-born, God-fearing Americans. Socialists believe themselves entitled because it is unacceptable for the top 1% of the rich to control 38% of the wealth.


Key difference is I'm not concerned for my own well being, it's the other people who I'm socialist for.


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31 May 2016, 2:10 am

Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Right on.

I've been calling Trump a Socialist for months on this site.

His ideas are right from the Socialist party platform.

-end free trade agreements
-huge taxes on the rich
-healthcare as a right
-tariffs on imports to "protect jobs"
-curtail "cheap labor" worker programs
-supports raising the minimum wage


He'd be a lot more palatable to me if he would have just stuck to the list you rattled off. But as he suddenly took a swing to the right in regard to seeing fellow Americans as the "other," to be feared and driven out, I have no use for him.


You have no use for critical thought of your own and will vote for who the party bosses tell you too, if Hillary had an R behind her name you'd despise her. You mischaracterize Trump's campaign, listen to what he actually talks about at his rallies and you'd find it's not media caricature you've been lead to believe.


You don't know me very well. I only vote for candidates with a D behind their names because of the political ideology behind it. And it's because of the political ideology behind the R that I vote against the candidates with it. If Republicans would actually care about poor and disabled people, and not coddle racist trash, maybe I'd vote for them. I have never, ever, listened to any party boss. Stop listening to my WP critics who go out of their way to defame me.


I can't accept this answer from somebody that is going to vote for Hillary Clinton who actually has a record and a bad one at that especially when it comes to these same outgroups that you completely base your vote off(which is a very privileged way of voting I might add; I care more the economy, jobs, staying out of war, etc. than I do the feelings of whatever group)


For one thing, I wish I could vote for Bernie in the general election.
For another, I'd only vote for Clinton because of the racist animus Trump's been unleashing for the sake of gaining votes. Sure, I care about the economy, but the way to take care of it isn't to divide Americans against Americans.
As Trump brags constantly about how he's going to destroy ISIS, I wouldn't hold my breath on the staying-out-of-war thing. George W got us into the Middle Eastern quicksand, and we're still trying to extradite ourselves.


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31 May 2016, 2:22 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

For one thing, I wish I could vote for Bernie in the general election.
For another, I'd only vote for Clinton because of the racist animus Trump's been unleashing for the sake of gaining votes. Sure, I care about the economy, but the way to take care of it isn't to divide Americans against Americans.
As Trump brags constantly about how he's going to destroy ISIS, I wouldn't hold my breath on the staying-out-of-war thing. George W got us into the Middle Eastern quicksand, and we're still trying to extradite ourselves.



I don't believe Trump is a racist, I don't think his policies are racist, you seem way more concerned with rhetoric that actions. The Clinton's signed NAFTA, they signed the crime bill, the signed DOMA, they pushed deregulation, 'birtherism' was the work of the Clinton's. Most Bernie supporters see Hillary as an unacceptable choice, the Clinton's are criminals and the epitome of Washington corruptness. Trump is the better candidate for Bernie supporters, if not him then Jill Stein or Gary Johnson, or just plain not voting. The Clinton's both belong in prison.



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31 May 2016, 3:08 am

Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

For one thing, I wish I could vote for Bernie in the general election.
For another, I'd only vote for Clinton because of the racist animus Trump's been unleashing for the sake of gaining votes. Sure, I care about the economy, but the way to take care of it isn't to divide Americans against Americans.
As Trump brags constantly about how he's going to destroy ISIS, I wouldn't hold my breath on the staying-out-of-war thing. George W got us into the Middle Eastern quicksand, and we're still trying to extradite ourselves.



I don't believe Trump is a racist, I don't think his policies are racist, you seem way more concerned with rhetoric that actions. The Clinton's signed NAFTA, they signed the crime bill, the signed DOMA, they pushed deregulation, 'birtherism' was the work of the Clinton's. Most Bernie supporters see Hillary as an unacceptable choice, the Clinton's are criminals and the epitome of Washington corruptness. Trump is the better candidate for Bernie supporters, if not him then Jill Stein or Gary Johnson, or just plain not voting. The Clinton's both belong in prison.


Trump very well may not be a racist, but he certainly knows what language to use to rile up his base concerning racial issues. Trump recently attacked the judge in the Trump University case, calling him a "Mexican." In fact, the judge is an American citizen by birth.


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31 May 2016, 3:09 am

Ganondox wrote:
The key problem with Trump is it's clear he doesn't actually care about the American people, he just wants to win as a mark of status. That's why his platform is so inconsistent, he just says want people want to hear, and he's playing to the crowd of angry, terrible people, with occasional bait for more reasonable people. He built his empire off of exploiting loopholes and crashing local economies for his own gain, that's not the type of person you want to run a country. He's a liar and a hypocrite who knows how to play the game to trick people into thinking he's honest.


They're are all like that though.

And then you have the worst of the worst, like Bernie Sanders, who says he wants to forcefully take your money.



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31 May 2016, 3:31 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
The key problem with Trump is it's clear he doesn't actually care about the American people, he just wants to win as a mark of status. That's why his platform is so inconsistent, he just says want people want to hear, and he's playing to the crowd of angry, terrible people, with occasional bait for more reasonable people. He built his empire off of exploiting loopholes and crashing local economies for his own gain, that's not the type of person you want to run a country. He's a liar and a hypocrite who knows how to play the game to trick people into thinking he's honest.


They're are all like that though.

And then you have the worst of the worst, like Bernie Sanders, who says he wants to forcefully take your money.


He doesn't want to forcefully take your money more than anyone else, including Republicans.


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31 May 2016, 4:07 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
He doesn't want to forcefully take your money more than anyone else, including Republicans.

Trump and Clinton both say they want tax cuts on the poor and middle class.

Sanders wants to raise taxes on the poor and middle class.



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31 May 2016, 4:22 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

For one thing, I wish I could vote for Bernie in the general election.
For another, I'd only vote for Clinton because of the racist animus Trump's been unleashing for the sake of gaining votes. Sure, I care about the economy, but the way to take care of it isn't to divide Americans against Americans.
As Trump brags constantly about how he's going to destroy ISIS, I wouldn't hold my breath on the staying-out-of-war thing. George W got us into the Middle Eastern quicksand, and we're still trying to extradite ourselves.



I don't believe Trump is a racist, I don't think his policies are racist, you seem way more concerned with rhetoric that actions. The Clinton's signed NAFTA, they signed the crime bill, the signed DOMA, they pushed deregulation, 'birtherism' was the work of the Clinton's. Most Bernie supporters see Hillary as an unacceptable choice, the Clinton's are criminals and the epitome of Washington corruptness. Trump is the better candidate for Bernie supporters, if not him then Jill Stein or Gary Johnson, or just plain not voting. The Clinton's both belong in prison.


Trump very well may not be a racist, but he certainly knows what language to use to rile up his base concerning racial issues. Trump recently attacked the judge in the Trump University case, calling him a "Mexican." In fact, the judge is an American citizen by birth.


What racial issues? Who cares about rhetoric? I care about actions and the Clinton's actions deserve to put them both in prison for the rest of their lives. The people so heavily invested in race are the media and the Democratic party which is completely married to identity politics even above economics, they are the ones exploiting racial division as they shift to the party of capital controlled by the interests of Wall Street and Silicon Valley. Wag the dog, pay attention! Do you care about actually care about the poor and working class or has that belief been totally abandoned?