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androbot01
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07 Aug 2016, 9:26 am

Washington Post: The unbearable stench of Trump’s B.S.

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In the essay, Frankfurt distinguishes crucially between lies and B.S.: “Telling a lie is an act with a sharp focus. It is designed to insert a particular falsehood at a specific point. . . . In order to invent a lie at all, [the teller of a lie] must think he knows what is true.”

But someone engaging in B.S., Frankfurt says, “is neither on the side of the true nor on the side of the false. His eye is not on the facts at all . . . except insofar as they may be pertinent to his interest in getting away with what he says.” Frankfurt writes that the B.S.-er’s “focus is panoramic rather than particular” and that he has “more spacious opportunities for improvisation, color, and imaginative play. This is less a matter of craft than of art. Hence the familiar notion of the ‘BS artist.’ ”

This has been Trump’s mode all his life. He boasts — and boasts and boasts — about his business, his buildings, his books, his wives. Much of it is a concoction of hyperbole and falsehoods.


I don't think it is news that Trump is a BSer, so I put this in PPR. This week Trump has been called not only a BS artist, but also a threat to national security. I think it is widely recognized now that regardless of politics, Trump has some personal mental health challenges. It seems that his supporters don't really care; rather, I think they like his bombast.
Were Trump to win he would not be the first leader with personal challenges. Reagan had Alzheimer's, Churchill fought depression, not to mention various monarchs throughout history.

So, does it matter if Trump is a BS artist? Or to put it another way, how important is it that the president have respect for the truth? And further, is respect for the truth important in general. I think it is, but I see that others think differently.

And this isn't a pro-Hillary post; she has her own issues with truth. But with Trump it seems all-pervasive.



Jacoby
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07 Aug 2016, 9:38 am

Trump is superior to Hillary, he will be fine as president. He has a shtick, so do other politicians, I think Trump is a lot more honest than most of these so called 'statesmen'. Just because someone acts hoity toity does not actually mean they are better, a smiling face and meaningless rhetoric does not mean they are any less unhinged. I would say those that were a mask, as Hillary does, are much scarier.

But no, I do not care about rhetoric and how my candidate communicates. It's not just the personality, it's policy and there is a stark difference between that of the candidate of Wall Street and all of capital and the candidate of the people.



BTDT
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07 Aug 2016, 9:46 am

I don't want to see another expensive war based on lies.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... r-timeline



Last edited by BTDT on 07 Aug 2016, 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

androbot01
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07 Aug 2016, 9:48 am

What worries me about Trump is that he speaks without thinking. His gaffes have been recoverable so far, but people have long memories. And it makes me wonder if he really thinks deeply about things like immigration and even abortion.



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07 Aug 2016, 9:54 am

androbot01 wrote:
...Reagan had Alzheimer's...
Has it been authoritatively established that Reagan had Alzheimer's disease during his administration? I might add that a person in the very earliest stages of Alzheimer's disease could probably function as president, however once made aware of the disease, I would still expect that president to resign.


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androbot01
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07 Aug 2016, 9:59 am

MaxE wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
...Reagan had Alzheimer's...
Has it been authoritatively established that Reagan had Alzheimer's disease during his administration? I might add that a person in the very earliest stages of Alzheimer's disease could probably function as president, however once made aware of the disease, I would still expect that president to resign.


Image

I think he was beginning to show symptoms by the end of his second term. But that's just from my own observation during the time.



Jacoby
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07 Aug 2016, 10:01 am

androbot01 wrote:
What worries me about Trump is that he speaks without thinking. His gaffes have been recoverable so far, but people have long memories. And it makes me wonder if he really thinks deeply about things like immigration and even abortion.


I think you are wrong that people have long memories but I like that Trump speaks without a filter, he doesn't need a million dollar team and months of focus testing before he opens his mouth. He is an open book, he talks to the media, he talks to his supporters, when was the last time Hillary did any of those things? Hillary only appears in scripted appearances and does not allow any questions ever from the media or anyone. She's a terrible candidate, a terrible actress, her mask only works when she hides herself away, one should look at how the DNC was rigged and look at how they are now trying to rig the general election.

Trump will actually be able to communicate with world leaders like Vladimir Putin or Xi Jinping, we already know Hillary will be a disaster in this regard as she was a Secretary of State.



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07 Aug 2016, 10:09 am

The problem is, Trump's policies are unworkable and contradictory. What's more, the reason his policies are contradictory is because he changes them to pander to whatever audience is in front of him.

You cannot have free trade AND protectionism.

You cannot be an isolationist AND be the world's superpower/leader AND hunt down ISIS AND be Russia's lap dog.

You cannot be a champion of the middle class AND deregulate Wall Street.

Trump is the definition of a BS artist. He's not a champion of the people. He's just a confidence man looking for attention and power. He'll do anything and say anything to keep the spotlight and gain power.

Beyond that, Trump is very Id driven. He's just a collection of impulses with a great intuitive feel for getting what he wants from people.


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androbot01
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07 Aug 2016, 10:29 am

Jacoby wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
What worries me about Trump is that he speaks without thinking. His gaffes have been recoverable so far, but people have long memories. And it makes me wonder if he really thinks deeply about things like immigration and even abortion.


I think you are wrong that people have long memories but I like that Trump speaks without a filter, he doesn't need a million dollar team and months of focus testing before he opens his mouth. He is an open book, he talks to the media, he talks to his supporters,

I'm not sure I agree that "filter" and "focus testing" are adequate descriptions of contemplative thought. Often my first instincts or assumptions are wrong and I am glad I didn't act on them.

Jacoby wrote:
...when was the last time Hillary did any of those things?

She gave it a go on Friday. She's not the greatest with the press though.


GoonSquad wrote:
The problem is, Trump's policies are unworkable and contradictory. What's more, the reason his policies are contradictory is because he changes them to pander to whatever audience is in front of him.

You cannot have free trade AND protectionism.

You cannot be an isolationist AND be the world's superpower/leader AND hunt down ISIS AND be Russia's lap dog.

You cannot be a champion of the middle class AND deregulate Wall Street.

Trump is the definition of a BS artist. He's not a champion of the people. He's just a confidence man looking for attention and power. He'll do anything and say anything to keep the spotlight and gain power.

Beyond that, Trump is very Id driven. He's just a collection of impulses with a great intuitive feel for getting what he wants from people.

I agree with what you have said. I think he is the ultimate con-man ... and I think he'll get away with it.



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07 Aug 2016, 10:32 am

GoonSquad wrote:
The problem is, Trump's policies are unworkable and contradictory. What's more, the reason his policies are contradictory is because he changes them to pander to whatever audience is in front of him.

You cannot have free trade AND protectionism.

You cannot be an isolationist AND be the world's superpower/leader AND hunt down ISIS AND be Russia's lap dog.

You cannot be a champion of the middle class AND deregulate Wall Street.

Trump is the definition of a BS artist. He's not a champion of the people. He's just a confidence man looking for attention and power. He'll do anything and say anything to keep the spotlight and gain power.

Beyond that, Trump is very Id driven. He's just a collection of impulses with a great intuitive feel for getting what he wants from people.


You are wrong about things being so black and white. On the subject of trade, I think Trump's positions are pretty clear even if he also says he supports "free trade" as "free trade" is a completely meaningless term in the way we use it. NAFTA and TPP are not actually free trade, they are managed trade deals that thousands of pages long and TPP is being negotiated totally in secret!

Trump doesn't identify as an isolationist, not involving ourselves in stupid wars or having our sovereignty stolen away by super national entities is not isolationist. The US is and will remain the world's most superpower, ISIS must be defeated and we need Russia's help to do it.

Dodd-Frank is not the end-all be all of financial regulation, Hillary with her closeness to the banks cannot be expected to reign them in. These banks need less protection, the issue is that they always have known that the government would bail them out for their risky practices, too big too fail should not be codified in law. I think who capital is lining up behind is illuminating.