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0_equals_true
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06 Aug 2016, 5:28 am

I have a unique window into Jewish culture in a professional capacity. Specifically women's culture and the requirements on them within the faith.

I have to say it strikes me as quite controlling. There is a lot of rules, and it get into quite intimate areas. For men but women bare the brunt of it. It supposed to be a maternal faith, but in reality it is paternalist.

Particularly talking about ritual purity/family purity rules. Some of this is copied into Islam, but no where near as elaborate.

The stereotype of neurotic mothers whilst a stereotype is understandable under those conditions. Certainly the person I know the best is extremely nervous, and is always telling me how nervous she is and have seen it in others as a trend.

Also Jewish women are also expected to cover up and dress quite modestly, although wigs are also acceptable in some sects instead of head scarves.

I'm not talking about ultra-Orthodox here, just normal orthodox. Ultras can't even begin to imagine.

Anyone else seen this, or has any insight.



Last edited by 0_equals_true on 06 Aug 2016, 5:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

0_equals_true
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06 Aug 2016, 5:34 am

Is it normal for instance to have to deliver in person or though courier a piece of white cloth or white knickers with menses/residue on it to a Rabi for judgment on purity?

Would that not be quite a neurotifying experience?



kraftiekortie
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06 Aug 2016, 5:34 am

Modern Orthodox isn't like that at all, as far as I can tell. They just dress conservatively. No wigs.



0_equals_true
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06 Aug 2016, 5:40 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Modern Orthodox isn't like that at all, as far as I can tell. They just dress conservatively. No wigs.


I think you are mistaken.

You might not tell if they are wearing a wig.

Practicing Orthodox cover the head.

Lot of these rule apply when they get married, although not all.



kraftiekortie
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06 Aug 2016, 5:54 am

Some merely wear a hat that covers part of their hair.

As far as the more extreme aspects of religious observance for the Modern Orthodox, I think it depends upon their particular congregation. There seems to be some flexibility in this area.



kraftiekortie
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06 Aug 2016, 8:12 am

I do feel that the more "traditional" adherents to Judaism have archaic notions pertaining to womens' rights.

Within these adherents, though, are some very outspoken women.



0_equals_true
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06 Aug 2016, 2:28 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
As far as the more extreme aspects of religious observance for the Modern Orthodox, I think it depends upon their particular congregation. There seems to be some flexibility in this area.


Both "Modern Orthodox" and "Conservative" refer to specific sect, not just general terms. Just pointing that out.

Modern Orthodox make up 30% of Orthodox secs 60% are Haredi (ultra Orthodox). Orthodox fall into groups like Chassidic, Sephardic, Yeshivish, Haredi.

In the US most Jewish are Reform or no denomination, however in Israel Reform is tiny.

"Conservative" actually refers to reversionist Judaism rather than political conservatism, and is separate from Orthodox secs. Again they are big in the US smaller in Israel.

Haredi have been growing.



kraftiekortie
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06 Aug 2016, 4:16 pm

I am aware that they are specific sects. I am of Jewish background myself, and have known people from various sects of Askenazi Jews. I haven't known any Sephardic Jews, though.

I have known Orthodox women who don't wear wigs, yet follow at least most precepts of traditional Judaism. They go as far as to not take elevators or drive during the Sabbath. I guess they wear hats to cover their hair--but I haven't noticed. They sometimes even wear jeans.....but their tops are always conservative and cover much.

I'm a totally nonobservant Jew. I think I would learn much by reading the Talmud, though.



Chronos
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12 Aug 2016, 3:05 am

0_equals_true wrote:
I have a unique window into Jewish culture in a professional capacity. Specifically women's culture and the requirements on them within the faith.

I have to say it strikes me as quite controlling. There is a lot of rules, and it get into quite intimate areas. For men but women bare the brunt of it. It supposed to be a maternal faith, but in reality it is paternalist.

Particularly talking about ritual purity/family purity rules. Some of this is copied into Islam, but no where near as elaborate.

The stereotype of neurotic mothers whilst a stereotype is understandable under those conditions. Certainly the person I know the best is extremely nervous, and is always telling me how nervous she is and have seen it in others as a trend.

Also Jewish women are also expected to cover up and dress quite modestly, although wigs are also acceptable in some sects instead of head scarves.

I'm not talking about ultra-Orthodox here, just normal orthodox. Ultras can't even begin to imagine.

Anyone else seen this, or has any insight.


There are some instances where I believe Orthodox judaism is oppressive towards women. For example, obtaining a divorce can be difficult or impossible for orthodox women who adhere to the authority of the religious courts/community, and there are some sects in Israel that insist that women sit in the back of buses so as to not tempt the men to rape them, and prohibit women from seeking advanced degrees, but they are a minority.

As for American orthodox jews, and probably English orthodox jews as well, I think women actually have a lot of freedom, or at least no less freedom than the men with the exception of divorce, particularly in ultra orthodox communities. However women can be more burdened in the communities where the men spend most of their time studying torah and the talmud, and the women are expected to fill the role of both the wage earner and care giver.



kraftiekortie
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12 Aug 2016, 8:00 am

Wouldn't it be nice if I had the leisure to study Talmud and Torah constantly!

The study of Talmud and Torah reaches dead ends unless they are combined with interaction with actual, present-day people.