Ethics of Neutering

Post Reply New Topic

@Ganondox - I've never said anything about euthanasia, but I personally do not approve of perfectly healthy animals being put down, even though I understand we don't have much of a choice, unfortunately- but that isn't related to the subject at hand


And I am not into much of that spiritual bullcrap, so I don't care about living "spiritually" through your descendants. I care about the real thing. So no, that isn't in a way for me, that isn't living. You're still dead even if you have kids, very, very dead. The dead know nothing. Sorry, I'm a skeptic.


@Misslizard - Definitely. Our 19 year old aussie passed away a few months, and we were going to go into the shelter to get another dog similar to him, and ended up settling with this 10-13 year old pitbull/mastiff mix, with no teeth. He wasn't fixed for 13 years, till he made it to that shelter- he was a breeder dog. And wasn't allowed inside a home, and was never given any attention, and didn't even have other dogs for company except for breeding.

He's the sweetest big guy we've ever had, if you so much as look at him, he gets a huge smile and wags his tail like mad. Also he became immediate best friends with our other pit bull mix around his age, who's never gotten along with another dog this well. They practically lay on top of each other 24 7.

Awesome,older dogs are so grateful for loving.Wonderful that he has a happy forever home now.They should all be so lucky.

Elective surgeries (particularly, involving the genitals and abdomen), confinement, and the pound's gas chamber cause injury and death.

In general, you don't pair virile members of the same gender together, to avoid violence. You don't pair virile members of the opposite gender together, to avoid unwanted pregnancy. Males will mark, and females will menstruate. So, you deal with that, hygienically, or "fix" what isn't broken.

I think part of the motivation behind neutering is it creates a state-enforced market and a bureaucratic regime; you are not formally allowed to own the animal, without maiming it, surgically.

For that matter, you could just as soon say that ear crimping, tail bobbing, declawing, and tooth removal are done for safety, and those markets will ultimately be maintained, under threat of force.

It is not enough to wag fingers, people are being physically coerced to participate.

As a person who has been at odds with my biological sex and potential reproductive role since I was old enough to understand the difference, I have a particularly uncomfortable and biased view when it comes to reproduction. Please take what I say with a pinch of salt. I realise I project my own feelings onto this issue and I shouldn't.

I personally feel that sterilising animals to prolong their life and prevent overpopulation is more humane and I'd rather value the life of the animals who are already living.

Also, there are some animals which probably don't desire to breed, at least not in their assigned role... and are effectively transsexual animals. I've seen biologically female dogs who I believe didn't want to be subjected to a female mating role. And I've heard of rats having similar behaviours. I feel particularly sympathetic towards these animals, the biologically female ones, especially, as they're often the ones with little choice.

In fact, I wish we humans had the choice of simply going into a clinic (without unnecessary obstacles and scrutiny) to have to our reproductive organs removed or rendered ineffective if we so wish. I'd be first in line....

I apologise if my post has offended anyone. It wasn't my intention.

Here's the math.
http://calculate-this.com/420000-kitten ... calculator
Do you have any idea the havoc feral cats do to the local wildlife?
There is no comparison with docking a dog's tail and neutering.One is totally unnecessary,only done to achieve a certain look.I live in a rural area,my yard is not fenced.So if I had a dog in heat it's possible another would show up and then I'd either have to find homes for a lot of puppies or take them in for abortion.Im sure apartment dwellers or people with fenced yards can safely avoid getting their dogs fixed,but that's not practical here.

I have separated fighting animals (dangerous and difficult), carried garbage cans of their waste, on my back, and was still surprised by the issue of abortion, as it applies to pets.

When my household took-in a stray cat of less than a year old, and had it spayed, there were four babies, inside.

It came came from an indigent house, which fed all comers. (Many poor people are like that.) They keep coming and coming and became an infestation, along the lines of rats, getting into nearby houses, eating the food, and acting feral around children.

For that matter, rodents can be lovely creatures, when they aren't contaminating grain, starting electrical fires, and spreading plagues.



This person gives a cockroach a drink from a wet paintbrush, during a heatwave.



Is it altruistic or unethical?

I've always had my pets spayed and neutered because there are already too many in shelters or strays without homes. I think for most animals with the exception of humans, dolphins, and bonobos, reproduction is is more of a necessity rather than a choice. Pets are actually less stressed when they are neutered without feeling the pressure to have to reproduce. Besides humans and the few other species that have sex for pleasure, reproduction is a survival instinct and pets aren't any less happy without it.

May I ask whether you see yourself in the animal?

I'm not talking about if YOU want to breed them, but if THEY want to breed themselves. And is the longest life really the happiest life? It's very far removed from the natural life, and it's an argument people use against zoos all the time.



I know you didn't say anything about euthanasia, I was just taking your comment about wanting to live to the logical conclusion. That doesn't just refer to healthy animals either, the sick ones appear to be desperate to live as well.

I said nothing about spirituality (hypocrite), what I was referring to was genes. However your attitude is frankly dumb because it's contradictory, as if you take spirituality out of it then all there is is genes since the individual loses all significance as they are nothing but a machine. A machine that functions the same as another machine is as good as the specific machine. I think you're really just failing to understand what spirituality means and are confusing it with woo.



I'm not against voluntary sterilization (and despite the claims you are making it is an option for people), but the animals aren't making the choice for themselves. What I'm really most interested in is not sterilization, that is easy, but the advancement of technology for doing the absolute. That is what is truly needed to realize reproductive freedom.



When they say an animal has sex for pleasure, what they are actually saying is the animal has sex outside of the fertile periods of its estrus cycle. It cannot be said the animals do not experience pleasure from intercourse or other parts of the reproductive process without being the animal. I disapprove when mentalistic terms are used to describe behavior. Also, phrasing it as a choice versus a need demonstrates an anthrocentric bias, where humans see their own behavior as free, while that of animals as mechanical. Finally, stress is a physiological response, and it's not necessarily associated with negative mental states, sometimes being stressed feels good. To never be stressed is boredom.

I don't think they have much of a choice when they come in heat.I've had dogs my whole life,a b***h in heat accepts any male that can breed her.Not like human reproduction where the female can say " not tonight,I have a headache."There isn't a choice,if you think there is than I'd say you have very little,if any,experience with dogs.Do you think the female grieves when her puppies are taken from her??Do you honestly think that they ALL go to a good home?My sons dog popped out ten puppies last time,just try and find good homes for all those pups.
Maybe you have some fear of being neutered,I sure don't.I got fixed after the second kid and I can promise you that I am much happier for it.
Sure they want to breed when in heat,but so does a teenager.Doesn't mean it's a good ideal.
Any suggestions for all the unwanted animals showing up at shelters??if your idea of reckless breeding was believed by pet owners just think of the amount showing up at shelters.For Christ's sake. Go visit an animal shelter and just look at all the ones waiting to be adopted,look at all the ones waiting to be gassed in shelters that still kill.Like the world really needs more unwanted animals.
You ever even seen a dog giving birth?? I've helped them whelp before,and I have the feeling you would change your mind after watching a b***h deliver.Not for the squeamish.

An indifferent and savantish memorizer finds that social behavior has predictable patterns, is usually driven by base, animal drives, as a matter of fact. No different from migratory birds, flock behavior, or the running of the grunion, which all happen at given times and places.

I'm taking this out of context. You were probably talking about an animal.

Except as a form of rhetoric, we usually don't discuss forced abortions to control the population, casual euthanasia, for people, or the removal of healthy sex organs, as a preventative against psychological stress.

Teenagers are immature though, while dogs are mature.

Nowhere did I advocate for reckless breeding. I'm just pointing out the ethical question is more complicated than you're trying to make it be, as it can be argued neutering is inherently immoral. (And like the world needs more unwanted people )

Yes, I have seen b*****s give birth. I've also seen humans give birth. That does absolutely nothing to change my opinion. Now, have you seen a cat f**k? That's more relevant.

One of those rare times I completely agree with you...

Humans are pretty much neutered these days, half of MIT graduates are still virgin.

We live in a sick and miserable society, with happy ukelele commercials brainwashing us like 1984.

While I don't want to ruin the joke, I have to make the serious point that there is a huge difference between being unable to reproduce due to circumstances and the mutilation that is sterilization.

Yeah,well I have given birth,or tried to.C-sections.Not the same as watching,and it's not a cake walk.Im spayed now and I don't feel like I was mutalated.More like liberated.
Yeas I've seen cats go at it.Females can get abcesses on the back of their neck from the male biting them.Then all those unwanted kittens.......Maybe the cats enjoy it,but the wildlife doesn't enjoy being eaten by feral cats.The Audobon society had estimates on the damage they do.
Most unwanted animals are the result of reckless breeding,plenty of stupid pet owners that just let their animals run loose when in heat.Then if they can't find homes for the offspring they dump them at all ready overloaded shelters or to die as a stray.
I agree that there are plenty of unwanted humans,that's why I think they should also be fixed after having two kids.