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beneficii
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10 Nov 2016, 2:28 am

Considering that the near-universal health care system we struggled and took more than a century to obtain and enact is about to be scuttled thanks to a candidate who didn't even win the popular vote, and given that the way our institutions are structured, we are unlikely to obtain universal health care anytime soon:

http://jhppl.dukejournals.org/content/20/2/329.abstract

Considering that patches like letting insurance sell plans across state lines, which will result in a race to bottom for insurance standards, and health savings accounts, which may be beneficial for upper-middle-class and above healthy individuals but are little help to lower-middle-class and below individuals with health conditions, we may again face a situation where we have a bunch of uninsured people with health conditions who are unable to get care unless they go to the emergency room.

To me, this is a failing of our government system, and a sign that we can achieve significant health care reform under the current constitutional order, so I propose that we work to establish a new constitutional order for the United States.

I propose that the states call for an Article V convention to propose amendments to the Constitution, to propose an amendment to permit a referendum on a new constitution. It'll be a lot of hard work to get there, but if we keep telling our stories and we see the problems going unaddressed, then we can build a movement.


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sly279
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10 Nov 2016, 3:23 am

! !!NO!! !



nurseangela
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10 Nov 2016, 3:28 am

beneficii wrote:
Considering that the near-universal health care system we struggled and took more than a century to obtain and enact is about to be scuttled thanks to a candidate who didn't even win the popular vote, and given that the way our institutions are structured, we are unlikely to obtain universal health care anytime soon:

http://jhppl.dukejournals.org/content/20/2/329.abstract

Considering that patches like letting insurance sell plans across state lines, which will result in a race to bottom for insurance standards, and health savings accounts, which may be beneficial for upper-middle-class and above healthy individuals but are little help to lower-middle-class and below individuals with health conditions, we may again face a situation where we have a bunch of uninsured people with health conditions who are unable to get care unless they go to the emergency room.

To me, this is a failing of our government system, and a sign that we can achieve significant health care reform under the current constitutional order, so I propose that we work to establish a new constitutional order for the United States.

I propose that the states call for an Article V convention to propose amendments to the Constitution, to propose an amendment to permit a referendum on a new constitution. It'll be a lot of hard work to get there, but if we keep telling our stories and we see the problems going unaddressed, then we can build a movement.



People are coming to the ER now without health insurance. Obamacare isn't working.


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Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
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Darn, I flunked.


beneficii
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10 Nov 2016, 4:20 am

nurseangela wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Considering that the near-universal health care system we struggled and took more than a century to obtain and enact is about to be scuttled thanks to a candidate who didn't even win the popular vote, and given that the way our institutions are structured, we are unlikely to obtain universal health care anytime soon:

http://jhppl.dukejournals.org/content/20/2/329.abstract

Considering that patches like letting insurance sell plans across state lines, which will result in a race to bottom for insurance standards, and health savings accounts, which may be beneficial for upper-middle-class and above healthy individuals but are little help to lower-middle-class and below individuals with health conditions, we may again face a situation where we have a bunch of uninsured people with health conditions who are unable to get care unless they go to the emergency room.

To me, this is a failing of our government system, and a sign that we can achieve significant health care reform under the current constitutional order, so I propose that we work to establish a new constitutional order for the United States.

I propose that the states call for an Article V convention to propose amendments to the Constitution, to propose an amendment to permit a referendum on a new constitution. It'll be a lot of hard work to get there, but if we keep telling our stories and we see the problems going unaddressed, then we can build a movement.



People are coming to the ER now without health insurance. Obamacare isn't working.


Obamacare isn't universal health care.


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AJisHere
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10 Nov 2016, 4:21 am

You show me a constitution that abolishes private property and then we'll talk.


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nurseangela
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10 Nov 2016, 4:24 am

beneficii wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Considering that the near-universal health care system we struggled and took more than a century to obtain and enact is about to be scuttled thanks to a candidate who didn't even win the popular vote, and given that the way our institutions are structured, we are unlikely to obtain universal health care anytime soon:

http://jhppl.dukejournals.org/content/20/2/329.abstract

Considering that patches like letting insurance sell plans across state lines, which will result in a race to bottom for insurance standards, and health savings accounts, which may be beneficial for upper-middle-class and above healthy individuals but are little help to lower-middle-class and below individuals with health conditions, we may again face a situation where we have a bunch of uninsured people with health conditions who are unable to get care unless they go to the emergency room.

To me, this is a failing of our government system, and a sign that we can achieve significant health care reform under the current constitutional order, so I propose that we work to establish a new constitutional order for the United States.

I propose that the states call for an Article V convention to propose amendments to the Constitution, to propose an amendment to permit a referendum on a new constitution. It'll be a lot of hard work to get there, but if we keep telling our stories and we see the problems going unaddressed, then we can build a movement.



People are coming to the ER now without health insurance. Obamacare isn't working.


Obamacare isn't universal health care.


What's the difference? And how does it get paid?


_________________
Me grumpy?
I'm happiness challenged.

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.


nurseangela
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10 Nov 2016, 4:26 am

AJisHere wrote:
You show me a constitution that abolishes private property and then we'll talk.


What is wrong with private property? I sure like my own place.


_________________
Me grumpy?
I'm happiness challenged.

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.


AJisHere
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10 Nov 2016, 4:29 am

nurseangela wrote:
AJisHere wrote:
You show me a constitution that abolishes private property and then we'll talk.


What is wrong with private property? I sure like my own place.


I do believe some German dudes wrote about this a bit back in the 1800s. You should look into that, they had some pretty cool ideas.


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nurseangela
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10 Nov 2016, 4:50 am

AJisHere wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
AJisHere wrote:
You show me a constitution that abolishes private property and then we'll talk.


What is wrong with private property? I sure like my own place.


I do believe some German dudes wrote about this a bit back in the 1800s. You should look into that, they had some pretty cool ideas.


I like my private property away from all the crazies. Taking time to look into that would take away valuable time much better spent.


_________________
Me grumpy?
I'm happiness challenged.

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.


TheSpectrum
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10 Nov 2016, 4:55 am

AJisHere wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
AJisHere wrote:
You show me a constitution that abolishes private property and then we'll talk.


What is wrong with private property? I sure like my own place.


I do believe some German dudes wrote about this a bit back in the 1800s. You should look into that, they had some pretty cool ideas.

Sounds like something someone who hasn't earned or doesn't own/look after private property would say.
If you don't mind me walking into your house in the middle of the night, eating your food and taking your stuff then cool. But sounds mad.


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techstepgenr8tion
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10 Nov 2016, 6:48 am

I think there's some confusion here. We live in a crap world. It's filled with people who have conflicting motivations, and accordingly the only way you can move change ahead is make the case for collective best-interest on a particular item at a time. Past that social order dissolves:

AJisHere wrote:
I do believe some German dudes wrote about this a bit back in the 1800s. You should look into that, they had some pretty cool ideas.

I'm reading Gulag Archipelago right now. Fascinating book.


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AJisHere
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10 Nov 2016, 12:10 pm

nurseangela wrote:
I like my private property away from all the crazies. Taking time to look into that would take away valuable time much better spent.


Time better spent than the time you use when you are not prostituting yourself to the whims of those with power, as we all have to do just to survive? I can understand this. Standing up for your freedom can be difficult and frightening. :(

TheSpectrum wrote:
Sounds like something someone who hasn't earned or doesn't own/look after private property would say.
If you don't mind me walking into your house in the middle of the night, eating your food and taking your stuff then cool. But sounds mad.


That is stealing, and it is wrong.

Exploiting others to gain wealth is also wrong.

Do you know what private property is? I'm serious, I get the impression that you do not.

AJisHere wrote:
I'm reading Gulag Archipelago right now. Fascinating book.


Cool, I am currently reading Fierce Invalids Home from Hot Climates. Any other non-sequiturs you'd like to throw out there? :lol:


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Misslizard
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10 Nov 2016, 1:33 pm

I like my private property becuse it's private.I have some control over my drinking water,heating(wood heat) and food and can be more self-reliant.That and the older I get the less I can stand interacting with other people or noise.I don't have any neighbors close by and I REALLY like that.
Ideally no one would own the land,most Native Americans had no concept of land ownership,you used what you needed,no more,and respected others space.That won't work now,someone would try to push me off my spot then there'd be one helluva fight.Or they would try to steal my resources,such as cutting my timber.
So my deed is the only thing that stops a stronger force from taking it from me.
Of course sometimes this doesn't help,like when Park Service or National Forest wants your land.I live a mile from National,and Park is just the over the mountain.I'm between them,I used to get nervous they might want to extend boundaries and you don't have any choice but to take their offer.

My reading material right now.
The Idiot.


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beneficii
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10 Nov 2016, 2:20 pm

nurseangela wrote:
beneficii wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Considering that the near-universal health care system we struggled and took more than a century to obtain and enact is about to be scuttled thanks to a candidate who didn't even win the popular vote, and given that the way our institutions are structured, we are unlikely to obtain universal health care anytime soon:

http://jhppl.dukejournals.org/content/20/2/329.abstract

Considering that patches like letting insurance sell plans across state lines, which will result in a race to bottom for insurance standards, and health savings accounts, which may be beneficial for upper-middle-class and above healthy individuals but are little help to lower-middle-class and below individuals with health conditions, we may again face a situation where we have a bunch of uninsured people with health conditions who are unable to get care unless they go to the emergency room.

To me, this is a failing of our government system, and a sign that we can achieve significant health care reform under the current constitutional order, so I propose that we work to establish a new constitutional order for the United States.

I propose that the states call for an Article V convention to propose amendments to the Constitution, to propose an amendment to permit a referendum on a new constitution. It'll be a lot of hard work to get there, but if we keep telling our stories and we see the problems going unaddressed, then we can build a movement.



People are coming to the ER now without health insurance. Obamacare isn't working.


Obamacare isn't universal health care.


What's the difference? And how does it get paid?


2 reasons: The individual mandate does not bring everyone in, because some people will prefer to pay the penalty; and not every state expanded Medicaid, causing the emergency room issue in those states to largely remain.

As for cost, universal health care systems have cheaper health care per person and quite fundable:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... martya-sen

It would also make us more productive in the long-term to have a healthier populace.


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eric76
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10 Nov 2016, 2:41 pm

My health care expenses have grown so much that I may drop it this year and go without insurance.



LoveNotHate
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10 Nov 2016, 2:46 pm

beneficii wrote:

As for cost, universal health care systems have cheaper health care per person and quite fundable:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... martya-sen

It would also make us more productive in the long-term to have a healthier populace.


We have Obamacare because President Obama went on tv, and said our government run health care is a "ticking time bomb".

Why would it be different now?