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hvtitan08
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18 Jan 2017, 12:34 pm

Would a person who is Pentecostal classify the Pentecostal denomination as Protestant?


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18 Jan 2017, 12:55 pm

I consider it Evangelical Protestant, though I use the term "glorified schizophrenia"


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18 Jan 2017, 1:19 pm

hvtitan08 wrote:
Would a person who is Pentecostal classify the Pentecostal denomination as Protestant?

I would think so, yes. American Pentecostalism arose in the early 20th century out of various "low-church" Protestant denominations.


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18 Jan 2017, 1:24 pm

There are three major subdivisions within Christianity: Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Protestantism.

Pentacostalism is a subset of Protestantism. The movement began around 1900 when it split off from other American Protestant creeds.

So yes: Pentacostals would be classified as "Protestants" (though they are considered far out in their worship style by main stream Protestant clergy in the USA their theology is basically the same Protestant type theology).



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18 Jan 2017, 5:35 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
There are three major subdivisions within Christianity: Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Protestantism.

Pentacostalism is a subset of Protestantism. The movement began around 1900 when it split off from other American Protestant creeds.

So yes: Pentacostals would be classified as "Protestants" (though they are considered far out in their worship style by main stream Protestant clergy in the USA their theology is basically the same Protestant type theology).


Actually, Pentecostal theology differs quite a bit from mainline Protestantism, particularly as Pentecostals mostly believe humans have to be involved with their salvation, rather than seeing salvation a entirely a work of God by grace.


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18 Jan 2017, 5:53 pm

The grace vs works argument has factions and lineages within many protestant denominations and has been an ecumenical topic for many centuries, I think. E.g., the sola fide business at the Council of Trent.


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19 Jan 2017, 9:16 am

I've heard they like to swing from the rafters.



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19 Jan 2017, 9:23 am

hvtitan08 wrote:
Would a person who is Pentecostal classify the Pentecostal denomination as Protestant?

Yes. My second-eldest sister's husband was a Pentecostal preacher----and, my sister owned a Faith radio station----and, they both thought of themselves, as protestant.

Also, I agree that there are many, if not most, Christian denominations that have, for centuries, believed individuals participated in their salvation, as I've been in alot of different kinds of churches. Basically, if they believe in following The Bible, and love their neighbor, and don't kill anyone, and don't steal, etc., they are participating in their salvation.





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19 Jan 2017, 9:26 am

Pentecostals are definitely Protestant---especially when the definition of "Protestant" is "not Roman Catholic."

If I were a Christian, I wouldn't be a Pentecostal. I'm not given to ecstatic display of my faith. I'm more the type who might express his faith silently.

I don't have any religious faith at all. But I don't like to express my atheism in vehement form.



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19 Jan 2017, 9:26 am

EzraS wrote:
I've heard they like to swing from the rafters.

LOLOL That's only on the THIRD Sunday, of every month!! LOL








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19 Jan 2017, 9:39 am

I have seen Pentecostals express their religious faith in various ways.

Sometimes, they might "speak in tongues." Other times, they might collapse because they are overwhelmed by the extent of their "ecstasy."

I get a little scared that people who are "in the spirit" might not come back into the "earthly" world. Though my fear is irrational.



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19 Jan 2017, 9:58 am

The basic mode is ecstatic, similar to what you see in many non-christian ecstatic faiths. People seem to become posessed an twitch or move unusually "in the spirit" -- they engage in glossolalia, meaningless sounds in patterns that roughly mimic the rhythms of foreign languages, they may go into extreme tests of faith like handling poisonous snakes and drinking poisonous liquids.

The reason for all this carrying on is to reinforce an idea of what true belief means for a Christian based on the book of Acts which describes the day of Pentecost when the Spirit (aka God) descended on the early community of believers with some splashy visual FX and imbued them with the ability to perform miracles like the ones the Son had performed.

The idea is that Christians who are truly saved and true believers should have the same gifts of the Spirit. The ecstatic activity at Pentecostal services serves to reinforce the identity and cohesion of the community by demonstrating those miraculous gifts in action.

An equally valid Christian perspective might look to the words of the Anointed One and not put the Lord their God to the test... But some people have to learn the hard way.


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19 Jan 2017, 10:05 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Pentecostals are definitely Protestant---especially when the definition of "Protestant" is "not Roman Catholic."

Yes, as in "protest-ant" (beginning with Luther, I believe) being one who protests Roman Catholicism. Interestingly, however, Pentecostalism has nothing to actually do with Pentecost. Pentecostalism began by merely placing focus upon something that had merely first happened to happen at the time of Pentecost.

kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't like to express my [lack of religious faith] in vehement form.

Commendations to you, and it would be great if vehement religious folks might learn to follow that kind of scriptural example!


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19 Jan 2017, 10:23 am

My ex attended services at a Pentecostal church once.He said a woman jumped up in the spirit and ran wide open into a wall in the church,knocked her flat down.It didn't faze her or hurt her one bit,she jumped right up and ran back down the aisle.He said it would have knocked him unconscious.
Now if there was a snake handling church around here I'd be tempted to attend services. :D
There were more of them in the southern part of this state.The women wore their hair in a bun and always wore dresses.In the northern part of the state there are more old order Mennonites.They are always friendly and polite.Fun to talk gardening with them.


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19 Jan 2017, 10:30 am

leejosepho wrote:
Interestingly, however, Pentecostalism has nothing to actually do with Pentecost. Pentecostalism began by merely placing focus upon something that had merely first happened to happen at the time of Pentecost.

That doesn't sound quite right to me. Pentecost is Greek for Shavuot, the "Festival of Weeks", so it can be used to describe either the Jewish Holy Day or the particular Shavuot following the Ascension when the Holy Spirit descended on the community of believers as described in Acts.

Quote:
When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. And suddenly from heaven there came a sound like the rush of a violent wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. Divided tongues, as of fire, appeared among them, and a tongue rested on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages, as the Spirit gave them ability.


I believe it's common practice among many western Christian communities to use the word Pentecost to refer to that particular day, notable for the events the Pentecostals organize their form of Christianity around.

The difficulty I see for those who would take this particular text in a literal way and use the ability to demonstrate special spirit powers as proof of being real and true Christians comes with glossolalia. Acts makes it clear that people are supposed to be speaking real foreign languages, not gibberish or "Angelic":

Quote:
“Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each of us, in our own native language? Parthians, Medes, Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs—in our own languages we hear them speaking about God’s deeds of power.”


You can't fudge this and say "foreign sounding gibberish is close enough" these people are described as automatically doing simultaneous translation into real languages. Since modern ecstatic Christians can't do that, we can apply the "by their fruit ye shall know them" test and conclude either that they are not real Christians or that these sideshow effects are not a reasonable test of faith.


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19 Jan 2017, 1:42 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
hvtitan08 wrote:
Would a person who is Pentecostal classify the Pentecostal denomination as Protestant?

Yes. My second-eldest sister's husband was a Pentecostal preacher----and, my sister owned a Faith radio station----and, they both thought of themselves, as protestant.

Also, I agree that there are many, if not most, Christian denominations that have, for centuries, believed individuals participated in their salvation, as I've been in alot of different kinds of churches. Basically, if they believe in following The Bible, and love their neighbor, and don't kill anyone, and don't steal, etc., they are participating in their salvation.


With the Protestant Reformation, Protestant theologians had always stressed salvation was always the work of God in us, rather than based on our cooperation with God, be it Luther's emphasis on grace, or Calvin's doctrine of predestination. Now, that hardly means there isn't a place for good works and good behavior, as the Reformation's fathers, and their mainline theological descendants, believe good works are the fruits of faith, which is worked in us by the Holy Spirit. Or in other words, real Christians will automatically do good works and love their neighbor just because it's the Christian thing to do.


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