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Stop saying identity politics caused Trump

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firemonkey
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20 Jan 2017, 11:41 am

It's a wildly unsophisticated analysis that ignores the fact that all politics is inflected by identity.

http://www.newstatesman.com/2017/01/sto ... used-trump


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beneficii
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20 Jan 2017, 1:40 pm

The one governor's race where transgender issues were prominent, in North Carolina, resulted in a Democratic victory. HB2, also known as the bathroom bill, likely cost former GOP Governor Pat McCrory reelection.

EDIT: According to Wiki, this is significant because no incumbent NC governor had ever lost reelection. McCrory was the first:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_ ... curity_Act


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Jacoby
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20 Jan 2017, 2:01 pm

Author doesn't seem to understand the concept of backlash.

Democrats would be wise to take heed of the criticisms instead of doubling down on the divisive politics of identity because ultimately that isn't one that is going to work, this anti-white male sentiment on the left needs to banished if they are to be taken seriously or ever win again. 'B-b-but that's identity politics too!! !' That's the entire point, you lost because of divisiveness!

Or continue on, Trump will triangulate the centrists and make you irrelevant



adifferentname
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20 Jan 2017, 3:39 pm

Identity politics caused Trump.

So did people telling other people what they shouldn't say.



beneficii
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20 Jan 2017, 3:49 pm

adifferentname wrote:
Identity politics caused Trump.

So did people telling other people what they shouldn't say.


Like people who say other people shouldn't call them racists or misogynists, and people who say minorities should just keep their mouth shut when someone's being inconsiderate because of their race or whatever. I imagine those people really turned out for Trump.


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firemonkey
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20 Jan 2017, 9:46 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Author doesn't seem to understand the concept of backlash.



Or could it be that you weren't intelligent enough to grasp what she was saying?


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21 Jan 2017, 4:04 am

Using shame as a political truncheon created a climate in which only shameless people could thrive. Sow the wind...


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21 Jan 2017, 5:14 am

beneficii wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Identity politics caused Trump.

So did people telling other people what they shouldn't say.


Like people who say other people shouldn't call them racists or misogynists, and people who say minorities should just keep their mouth shut when someone's being inconsiderate because of their race or whatever. I imagine those people really turned out for Trump.


That's your problem, beneficii. Instead of exercising your imagination, you should use your eyes and ears.



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21 Jan 2017, 7:42 am

Quote:
...white men don't benefit from their usual unearned assumption of expertise in the subject at hand. No wonder they find discussion of them boring.)

Both of these criticisms end up in the same place. Pipe down, ladies. By complaining, you're only making it worse. Hush now, Black Lives Matter: white people find your message alienating. We'll sort out police racism... well, eventually. Probably. Just hold tight and see how it goes. ...


Trump leads a cult of identity - the cult of Trump. For him everyone identifies as American or unAmerican. With America being defined by his vision of it backed by his less than marginal victory. He says the inner cities are crime ridden which fits in with his authoritarian view of policing. But he fails to see the reason for the crime. The result will be more black/white confrontation and entrenching of hatreds.



Jacoby
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21 Jan 2017, 7:46 am

firemonkey wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Author doesn't seem to understand the concept of backlash.



Or could it be that you weren't intelligent enough to grasp what she was saying?


Well I was right about the election and Trump so perhaps you're overestimating your own intelligence and the author's who couldn't of been more wrong. In other words, scoreboard.



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21 Jan 2017, 8:10 am

Come on now; let's all just get along.



firemonkey
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21 Jan 2017, 11:53 am

Jacoby wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Author doesn't seem to understand the concept of backlash.



Or could it be that you weren't intelligent enough to grasp what she was saying?


Well I was right about the election and Trump so perhaps you're overestimating your own intelligence and the author's who couldn't of been more wrong. In other words, scoreboard.



The author made a good point. There is no such thing as one sided identity politics. To too many on the political right that includes embracing racism/xenophobia/anti disabled/anti gay and trans rhetoric and embracing uncivilised behaviour.

Having said that Democrats have to give Trump as much chance as the Republicans gave Obama to govern. To expect anything more would be rank hypocrisy on the part of Republicans.


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Jacoby
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21 Jan 2017, 12:18 pm

firemonkey wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Author doesn't seem to understand the concept of backlash.



Or could it be that you weren't intelligent enough to grasp what she was saying?


Well I was right about the election and Trump so perhaps you're overestimating your own intelligence and the author's who couldn't of been more wrong. In other words, scoreboard.



The author made a good point. There is no such thing as one sided identity politics. To too many on the political right that includes embracing racism/xenophobia/anti disabled/anti gay and trans rhetoric and embracing uncivilised behaviour.

Having said that Democrats have to give Trump as much chance as the Republicans gave Obama to govern. To expect anything more would be rank hypocrisy on the part of Republicans.


Newton's third law, I am not saying that isn't any white identity politics at play but I see it as a natural result of the Democrats full embrace of identity politics as their central ideology. Now I don't see this awakening as a totally bad thing since it has woken GOP base voters up to the fact that their own party does not represent their self interests very well when it comes to certain issues, globalism has destroyed the way of life for these people and they want it back. You can't create a coalition against the dominant demographic grouping and expect to win, you need a 50 state strategy and an idea that appeals to all Americans. Illegal immigration and bad trade deals don't just effect white people, it actually disproportionately hurts the poor and particularly minorities so I see it as opportunity to speak to their interests as well. If the GOP could just capture 20% of tthe black vote and 40% of the Hispanic vote, they'd never lose another election and I don't think those are unreachable or unrealistic figures.

Transgendered bathrooms, fearmongering about Roe v Wade, gun control, and amnesty are not going to win you many votes on their own off college campuses and corporate boardrooms.



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21 Jan 2017, 2:26 pm

adifferentname wrote:
beneficii wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Identity politics caused Trump.

So did people telling other people what they shouldn't say.


Like people who say other people shouldn't call them racists or misogynists, and people who say minorities should just keep their mouth shut when someone's being inconsiderate because of their race or whatever. I imagine those people really turned out for Trump.


That's your problem, beneficii. Instead of exercising your imagination, you should use your eyes and ears.


Oh, trust me, I have been.

I've seen Trumpers rave on and on and on, and somebody comes and makes a good argument for why they're wrong, and what do the Trumpers do? They whine about how their freedom of speech is supposedly being violated, when they really just lost the argument!

I've seen Trump and his supporters say all sorts of messed-up crap and people rightly call them out for being racist, misogynist, or whatever, and like above they whine about how supposedly their freedom of speech is being violated, even as their views are being blared and blasted all over the place, ad nauseum.

So, trust me, I've been keeping my eyes and ears peeled, and I don't like what I'm seeing.


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beneficii
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21 Jan 2017, 2:30 pm

Jacoby wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Author doesn't seem to understand the concept of backlash.



Or could it be that you weren't intelligent enough to grasp what she was saying?


Well I was right about the election and Trump so perhaps you're overestimating your own intelligence and the author's who couldn't of been more wrong. In other words, scoreboard.



The author made a good point. There is no such thing as one sided identity politics. To too many on the political right that includes embracing racism/xenophobia/anti disabled/anti gay and trans rhetoric and embracing uncivilised behaviour.

Having said that Democrats have to give Trump as much chance as the Republicans gave Obama to govern. To expect anything more would be rank hypocrisy on the part of Republicans.


Newton's third law, I am not saying that isn't any white identity politics at play but I see it as a natural result of the Democrats full embrace of identity politics as their central ideology. Now I don't see this awakening as a totally bad thing since it has woken GOP base voters up to the fact that their own party does not represent their self interests very well when it comes to certain issues, globalism has destroyed the way of life for these people and they want it back. You can't create a coalition against the dominant demographic grouping and expect to win, you need a 50 state strategy and an idea that appeals to all Americans. Illegal immigration and bad trade deals don't just effect white people, it actually disproportionately hurts the poor and particularly minorities so I see it as opportunity to speak to their interests as well. If the GOP could just capture 20% of tthe black vote and 40% of the Hispanic vote, they'd never lose another election and I don't think those are unreachable or unrealistic figures.

Transgendered bathrooms, fearmongering about Roe v Wade, gun control, and amnesty are not going to win you many votes on their own off college campuses and corporate boardrooms.


The transgender bathrooms issue got Democrats the governorship in red North Carolina, the only governor's race where they were a major issue, so you're really just BS-ing here.

In fact, I've already discussed this issue further up the thread:

Quote:
The one governor's race where transgender issues were prominent, in North Carolina, resulted in a Democratic victory. HB2, also known as the bathroom bill, likely cost former GOP Governor Pat McCrory reelection.

EDIT: According to Wiki, this is significant because no incumbent NC governor had ever lost reelection. McCrory was the first:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Fa ... curity_Act


If anything, I think Democrats need to make clear we really do believe what we're saying, and we need to make the issue a clear crusade, a fight of good versus evil.


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Jacoby
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21 Jan 2017, 2:51 pm

beneficii wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Author doesn't seem to understand the concept of backlash.



Or could it be that you weren't intelligent enough to grasp what she was saying?


Well I was right about the election and Trump so perhaps you're overestimating your own intelligence and the author's who couldn't of been more wrong. In other words, scoreboard.



The author made a good point. There is no such thing as one sided identity politics. To too many on the political right that includes embracing racism/xenophobia/anti disabled/anti gay and trans rhetoric and embracing uncivilised behaviour.

Having said that Democrats have to give Trump as much chance as the Republicans gave Obama to govern. To expect anything more would be rank hypocrisy on the part of Republicans.


Newton's third law, I am not saying that isn't any white identity politics at play but I see it as a natural result of the Democrats full embrace of identity politics as their central ideology. Now I don't see this awakening as a totally bad thing since it has woken GOP base voters up to the fact that their own party does not represent their self interests very well when it comes to certain issues, globalism has destroyed the way of life for these people and they want it back. You can't create a coalition against the dominant demographic grouping and expect to win, you need a 50 state strategy and an idea that appeals to all Americans. Illegal immigration and bad trade deals don't just effect white people, it actually disproportionately hurts the poor and particularly minorities so I see it as opportunity to speak to their interests as well. If the GOP could just capture 20% of tthe black vote and 40% of the Hispanic vote, they'd never lose another election and I don't think those are unreachable or unrealistic figures.

Transgendered bathrooms, fearmongering about Roe v Wade, gun control, and amnesty are not going to win you many votes on their own off college campuses and corporate boardrooms.


The transgender bathrooms issue got Democrats the governorship in red North Carolina, the only governor's race where they were a major issue, so you're really just BS-ing here.

In fact, I've already discussed this issue further up the thread:

Quote:
The one governor's race where transgender issues were prominent, in North Carolina, resulted in a Democratic victory. HB2, also known as the bathroom bill, likely cost former GOP Governor Pat McCrory reelection.

EDIT: According to Wiki, this is significant because no incumbent NC governor had ever lost reelection. McCrory was the first:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Fa ... curity_Act


If anything, I think Democrats need to make clear we really do believe what we're saying, and we need to make the issue a clear crusade, a fight of good versus evil.


Few things, governors in North Carolina were limited to a single 4 year term before 1976 and was that way since 1868 and before that it was only a single 2 year term so saying "he's the first incumbent NC governor to ever lose reelection" doesn't mean as much since it was not until recently that they were even allowed to run for reelection. Apparently the governor of North Carolina did not even have veto power until 1996 so the office was weak by design. Also the election was decide by only a few thousand votes and McCory was in for a tough reelection according to polls even before that law was passed. That may of had relevance as a state issue too but the transgendered bathroom stuff was national news and something that most people were tired of hearing about. I know it's something near and dear to your heart but it was hardly the most pressing or uniting issue for Democrats to rally behind.

Good luck with the crusade tho, I think you're going to alienate people. It's one thing to demand tolerance but now the goal posts have been moved to you have to believe what I believe or else, the reality seems to be both sides want to force their worldview on the other and neither will be happy until that's achieved. One thing is certain, Americans do not like being dictated to in what to believe or not believe.