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Raptor
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29 Mar 2017, 6:12 pm

^whichever one you hate the most is what I am.


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Fugu
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29 Mar 2017, 6:15 pm

Raptor wrote:
^whichever one you hate the most is what I am.
so you're an ideological ameoba? uh ok. have fun being shiftless i guess.



B19
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29 Mar 2017, 9:53 pm

More than one poster in this thread is steering it toward being locked. Posting in a hostile and targeted way at and about other posters rather than topic content, and/or deliberately trying to provoke other members using the same modus operandi has derailed perpetrators in the past. Please confine comments to the topic under debate.



Fugu
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29 Mar 2017, 10:44 pm

B19 wrote:
More than one poster in this thread is steering it toward being locked. Posting in a hostile and targeted way at and about other posters rather than topic content, and/or deliberately trying to provoke other members using the same modus operandi has derailed perpetrators in the past. Please confine comments to the topic under debate.
It was until raptor decided to pretend he killed people, this being only the latest lame attempt on his part to provoke a response, much like Dox47's post earlier in this thread. the topic under debate being "why do americans love guns so much?", please point out where I strayed from this topic.



sly279
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29 Mar 2017, 10:57 pm

The topic is about pushing gun control rather then actually wanting input from American gun owners as to why they like guns. It's a shame bait and switch in sincere title and topic. Better off in some rant about what people said in Facebook post in heaven. So it's no wonder it's turned into a classic heated battle between freedom loving pro constitution side and the police state government controlled anti side.



CzigBot
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30 Mar 2017, 4:27 am

I like guns because guns are fun. Also for home defense.



blacksabat
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30 Mar 2017, 5:19 am

Americans are too much bad guys and paranoid also they produced too much weapon so they built an image that civilian had to own a weapon for protection



kraftiekortie
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30 Mar 2017, 10:29 am

To say that gun control advocates are "anti-gun," and "want to take guns away from people" is a gross oversimplificiation.

There are many gray areas to the overall gun debate. It's not all black and white. It's not all "gun owners must have the right to own any gun they want" It's not all "anti-gun people want to take guns away from gun owners."

No, there won't be some kind of civil war where gun advocates are placed in "re-education camps" like they had in places like communist North Vietnam.



ZenDen
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30 Mar 2017, 10:35 am

Dox47 wrote:
b9 wrote:
the only qualm i would have about guns being legal in australia, is that the police would be paranoid like yours are when they pull you over for even a minor infraction.

your cops are trained to treat everyone as if they are a potential gun carrier, and because of that, people get crash tackled and hancuffed until they are searched and found to be "clean".

in australia, police just walk up to your car and knock on the window and are quite friendly.


You're not the first non-American to make that point, but like the others, you don't seem aware that our police have gotten twitchier in response to our drug war and some very questionable training practices, not any rise in the prevalence of carrying arms. At some point they seemed to switch from the old "serve and protect" model into behaving more like an occupying force, with the "I've got to survive my shift whatever the cost" mentality to go along with it. There are a number of theories about why that happened, but interestingly, none of them ever seem to cite civilian gun ownership as one the causes.

Also, I think you have an exaggerated idea of how aggressive our cops are, it's only the bad ones that make the news, so it's easy to think that the tackle and cuff routine is the norm rather than the exception. I say that as someone who has no love for the police at all.


I'm pretty certain I remember police started using "invasion tactics" when the fellas started returning from Vietnam and began taking public safety positions. It was noted at the time. How could you expect anything else from people who have had to have hair trigger reactions to all civilian activity around them just to stay alive.

As far as the Australian "handcuff in front" practice? We used to do that in the U.S. as well, until someone in a backseat managed to access a weapon and killed the two officers in the car. How many times do you have to have this happen before you change policy? Australians police are stupid for not being more careful....but I predict (unfortunately) this will change.



HelloWorld314
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30 Mar 2017, 10:48 am

I share the same sentiment as OP. I am generally right wing, yet I can't understand the gun thing.

In countries with strict gun control like China, most criminals can only use knives, which drastically reduce casualties. I would totally hate going to shopping malls knowing a criminal with gun can potentially show up and start randomly shooting people. If the criminal only has knives, I exercise regularly and can run away.

And it is totally stupid to think that civilians can fight off armies with guns... I mean seriously? With the amount of money US has spent on military and military technology, do you seriously believe the army can be fought off by mere civilians? It is much more practical to instill values in children so the army of the new generations won't fight for a corrupted government in the first place.

As for home protection, installing home security system, using highly secure doors and windows, or just getting a protection dog or any dog that barks loudly is just much more practical.


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ZenDen
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30 Mar 2017, 11:11 am

sly279 wrote:
ZenDen wrote:
Quote:
If it became a rebellion it would most likely be the government's hired guns that trigger it with scenarios similar to what they did at Waco in 1993 and Ruby Ridge the year before that. There is a point where civil obedience gets pushed to the breaking point and ignites widespread civil disobedience. The nation is probably considerably less stable now than in the early 90's and won't change much in the foreseeable future. This creates a climate where the dick in the hornet's nest scenario I mentioned in my last post becomes more plausible.

If my preference of dying on my feet rather than live on my knees is inflammatory BS then so be it because I am what I am.

What about shooting an innocent guard? Who is this guard and what is he guarding? Attacking from cover is common in warfare and has been for a few centuries in America and where American troops have been involved. What's your real American method, an old west style gunfight on the street with both parties drawing and firing Colt SAA's at each other?

Image


Btw; please start using the quote tools. Makes things much tidier and easier to read.


Quote:
What about shooting an innocent guard? Who is this guard and what is he guarding?


His name is Joe Brisson, you don't know him but he lives 2 blocks from you. His two little girls are the ones playing out in front all the time. He's had a hard time finding a job so this is what lead him to enlisting in the National Guard.

The warehouse he guards is full of food supplies and a recent shipment of AR type weapons. Tomorrow, Thursday, he was supposed to take some "leave time" to take the kids roller skating after school. And you'll attack this innocent from your foul cover? And then show us your pride? This is not the way humans live.

He was not planning to kill you. There is no "other" in this fight. It's one American killing another....for reasons of pride? This is not your enemy but in frustration you'll kill him because you can't get at your true enemy? Poor choices my friend. Use your head.


The German private on th beach had a family too and he was drafted and forced to serve. So what. Sad but such is the reality in war. That guard is protecting the weapons and food of the troops out killing Americans civilians. Wrong side wrong place. Most people aren't evil. We killed thousands of Vietnamese fighting for their home and family for a stupid ideal of domino effect. Hell most. Roth Koreans are just poor bastards forced to serve, but better believe if their friends start bombing sk they'll be killed just as well.

My friends are/we're in the military and in a event such as government taking guns they'd run off or turn themselves in to be jailed rather then follow unconstitutional orders in violation of the constitution they swore to defend with their life. War is harsh. Guys who stormed the beaches are friends with the guys who fired the machine guns killing their friends. They don't hold it against them, but rest assured they'd shot them if they'd ran into each other in war. That's the thing about war. No ones bad guy. Most are just good guys found on opposite sides of each other.
Everyone has a family and backstory, a planned future. Criminals have families too. Is what it is. I hope it won't ever come to bloodshed. It won't be pretty. They're be revenge killings on both sides. Thousands if not millions will die. The USA that comes out of it if it does won't be the same. But 100 million gun owners not just surrender and walk off to reeducation camps willingly like anti gun people believe we will. Many current and ex military will fight. Navy seals train to take down countries. Our power grid weak. This country will colaspe into arnarcy after few weeks without power and supplies. Ex military training people could bring this nation to a standstill.the gov trained them how to. They've gen been trained how to train locals into guerrilla units. It'll be Afghanistan all over. We trained them to. They used our training against us.


"The German private on the (edit) beach had a family too and he was drafted and forced to serve. So what."

Thank you for bringing this back. I see you're wondering "What's wrong...." I think it slipped past others.

The "German on the beach...." was part of an attempt at invasion of others." He was part of a national army. Do you see others on this forum who are part of an active army?

The point I was trying to make is that if you arm yourself with percussive weapons and go off with your little friends to kill someone (and use VERY VERY noble words to describe your filthy action) then you're nothing more than a TERRORIST. And this is how you have two misguided fools killing people with bombing in Oklahoma.

And there are people on this forum who would rather kill these 168 innocent people, through some useless "gesture", than "Live on their knees."

And all the slimy posturing and attempting to cover the reality of this is quite macabre; perhaps this is not proper discussion? It's no joke and idle discussion by fools can lead to real consequences.

This is the point I was trying to make earlier, when I was overcome with laughter by Raptor's "oh so funny" antics.



ZenDen
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30 Mar 2017, 11:26 am

With all of the discussion about high levels of crime and killing I wonder if anyone has taken the time to find out, if the killing is mostly in large dense urban areas, who is actually doing the killing?

Can we say with any certainty the majority of killings are done by black and Hispanic people? I think so.

Tell me Fugu...do you have the same situation in YOUR foreign country (the one you proudly tell us is soooo superior)?
Or, if your situation is very different, could you please stop with the ignorant posts about the U.S. already? Thank you.



Skilpadde
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30 Mar 2017, 12:21 pm

More personal attacks. Thread locked.


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