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fifasy
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11 Apr 2017, 10:55 am

The way the USA and the UK are heading, there is no economic hope for most people.

Suppose a circus, theatre event or rock band visits your local city. Do you go to see them?

There is no way to know for sure... yet increasingly the likely answer is no.

10 or 20 years ago the answer would most likely have been yes.

As wealth continues to flow from the poorer to the wealthier people, there is less disposable income to spend. The first major casualties are "luxuries" like trips to the theatre, arts events, music, holidays.

This mean seem insignificant yet it does have an effect. When people stop doing these things it means less money is spent on eating out too. That in turn means less money is spent on public transportation and fuel.

It all adds up. The general picture is people now can afford just about to exist, not to enjoy life. That means the economy is being stripped to its bare bones for most of us. There is still entertainment for the businesspeople but for your average unemployed, or low wage person working several jobs to make ends meet, person or even for overworked and stressed out teachers having their working rights and pay eroded, the picture is quite bleak.

And without a thriving arts or entertainment sector in society, it has knock on effects. It leads to more depression. Life becomes more serious, less fun. That in turn will lead to more dependence on antidepressants, something we are already seeing happen. That is good economic news for a small sector of the economy, pharmaceutical companies and medical services, but bad for everyone else as the cost of that medication is either a drain on taxpayers if it is publically funded or a drain on individuals if it is paid by health insurance or directly.

Until inequality is tackled, the economy is doomed. There is no way we can create sustainable, well paid jobs the way things are going.



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11 Apr 2017, 9:52 pm

I would say this - if a recession gets bad enough and everyone's just about living hand to mouth its almost as bad for all involved as a nation of savers. If happens, AFAIK, the whole thing grinds to a halt.


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LoveNotHate
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12 Apr 2017, 1:17 am

fifasy wrote:
The way the USA and the UK are heading, there is no economic hope for most people.

The positive is that the US and UK are fighting global inequality by means of free trade, outsourcing of companies/jobs to poorer countries, easy immigration of workers and immigration of refugees.



The_Walrus
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12 Apr 2017, 7:19 am

Do you actually have evidence to support these claims?

For example, you say that attendance at music events is declining, but actually just under half of 18-34 year olds attend music festivals annually and they spend an average of £168 on tickets. Source.

You also worry about restaurants feeling the pinch, but actually restaurant spending is up massively. See here and here.

Of course I agree that poverty needs to be tackled, but the problem is people at the bottom not having enough, not "inequality" as such.



ASPartOfMe
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12 Apr 2017, 9:32 am

Most recessions leave people permanently behind, most of whom are not "useless eaters". The Great Depression the worst economic downturn of all did not because WWII. The "Great Recession" a euphemism for the recent depression left a lot more people behind because it was much deeper and longer than any economic downturn since the great depression. But while the too big to fail economy that caused the depression was enhanced and not solved there is little doubt that the majority of people at least on the surface are kind of back to where they were prior to the depression. The unemployment rate is low 4.7 percent, more people went on vacations this year than in a decade or so, restaurants are filled.

The depression being over and more economic inequality is co-occurring because more then the usual amount people left behind by the depression is being enhanced by technological and social change. You have high-end stores and 99 cent stores. That is why Sears is not long for this world and why Sears is one of last remaining of the kind of practical middle-class shopping that used to predominate in American retail. Similar to restaurants, there are McDonald's type fast food and Gourmet Burger type establishments and not much in between.


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NotThatClever13
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12 Apr 2017, 6:08 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Most recessions leave people permanently behind, most of whom are not "useless eaters". The Great Depression the worst economic downturn of all did not because WWII. The "Great Recession" a euphemism for the recent depression left a lot more people behind because it was much deeper and longer than any economic downturn since the great depression. But while the too big to fail economy that caused the depression was enhanced and not solved there is little doubt that the majority of people at least on the surface are kind of back to where they were prior to the depression. The unemployment rate is low 4.7 percent, more people went on vacations this year than in a decade or so, restaurants are filled.

The depression being over and more economic inequality is co-occurring because more then the usual amount people left behind by the depression is being enhanced by technological and social change. You have high-end stores and 99 cent stores. That is why Sears is not long for this world and why Sears is one of last remaining of the kind of practical middle-class shopping that used to predominate in American retail. Similar to restaurants, there are McDonald's type fast food and Gourmet Burger type establishments and not much in between.


I agree, a lot of people were left behind and still are. The recovery has not effected everyone equally. Those on the bottom still don't have good prospects.

I see a lot of inequality in the US. In some areas the extreme between rich and poor is quite stark.



kitesandtrainsandcats
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12 Apr 2017, 6:21 pm

Thinking that equality/inequality, economies, and food, are intimately entangled, I wonder how this fits in,

Quote:
Tue Apr 11, 2017 | 1:40pm EDT
Grains piled on runways, parking lots, fields amid global glut
By P.J. Huffstutter and Karl Plume
Global stocks of corn, wheat, rice and soybeans combined will hit a record 671.1 million tonnes going into the next harvest - the third straight year of historically high surplus, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA). That's enough to cover demand from China for about a year.

In the United States, farmers facing a fourth straight year of declining incomes and rising debts are hanging on to grain in the hope of higher prices later. They may be waiting a long time: Market fundamentals appear to be weakening as the world's top grain producers ponder what to do with so much food.

The persistent glut is a striking contrast from the panic a decade ago, when severe droughts in Russia and the United States sent prices soaring. The shrinking supply forced big importers such as China to enact policies to encourage more domestic production and increase the volume of storage to improve food security.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-g ... SKBN17D0EO


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LoveNotHate
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12 Apr 2017, 10:48 pm

The truth is that almost everyone feels poor.

I work with thousands of people who commonly make 150k per year, they get a mortgage on a 400-600k home, have a few kids, make payments on a nice car, and it makes them feel poor.

They struggle to get by, yet they are in the top 5% of income earners.



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13 Apr 2017, 1:39 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
The truth is that almost everyone feels poor.

I work with thousands of people who commonly make 150k per year, they get a mortgage on a 400-600k home, have a few kids, make payments on a nice car, and it makes them feel poor.

They struggle to get by, yet they are in the top 5% of income earners.


But that's hardly everyone. More and more people are genuinely losing more and more ground economically.


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13 Apr 2017, 1:51 am

Lol me and my boyfriend haven't really gone out for months...to little money, cheaper to just sit at home with a cheap 30 rack and drink it. I mean hey 15-20 bucks vs. 40-60 and you can still have an enjoyable time.....I don't imagine liquor stores are the hardest hit during these times but of course liquor stores don't run the entire economy.


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LoveNotHate
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13 Apr 2017, 1:51 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
The truth is that almost everyone feels poor.

I work with thousands of people who commonly make 150k per year, they get a mortgage on a 400-600k home, have a few kids, make payments on a nice car, and it makes them feel poor.

They struggle to get by, yet they are in the top 5% of income earners.


But that's hardly everyone. More and more people are genuinely losing more and more ground economically.

I think *almost everyone* is accurate.

There was an article on Andrew Schiff years back, he makes $350,000 per year, and he lamented how $350,000 per year is "poor" in New York.
https://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2012/02/29 ... s-warfare/

So, that is someone in the top 1% of income earners feeling poor.



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13 Apr 2017, 1:53 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
fifasy wrote:
The way the USA and the UK are heading, there is no economic hope for most people.

The positive is that the US and UK are fighting global inequality by means of free trade, outsourcing of companies/jobs to poorer countries, easy immigration of workers and immigration of refugees.



Ha ha ha, especaillly with the U.S's trump policies of keep foreigners out, build a wall bring and make world trade more difficult in this country. And his aggravation of the Syria conflict and of course that United Airlines incident with the Chinese doctor....yeah the U.S is right on top of world trade.... :roll:


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