Page 1 of 5 [ 63 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

wrongcitizen
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 22 Oct 2016
Gender: Male
Posts: 696

08 Apr 2017, 4:20 am

Philistinism is generally a narrow minded view of arts, spirituality, creativity, etc. It is a sort of anti-intellectual movement. However, as far as I know, it doesn't directly discredit knowledge of a subject because followers of this philosophy believe that material wealth and physical possessions are preferred over intangible or cultural wealth, as far as I can tell, and "despise" everything related to the latter. What are your thoughts? Do you think the general attitude of the US or of Americans follow this description? I'm American but I don't think of myself as a Philistine. What are your thoughts?

As a side note, my PERSONAL definition of culture is something of a more classical, marinated, tender perspective. I like older music and arts because I feel it is more attractive to me. This is not too common in our world today, where much of the population leans continually towards newer and more explorative styles of creative expression rather than the fine and beautiful works of previous aestheticians. I don't know if this is true or not and it is an assumption, but I feel that much of todays music is simplified and mainstreamed to be intellectually accessible to a larger audience, and those of us who do not wish to be involved in this mass culture are often excluded or made to be outsiders when we wouldn't have been a hundred years ago.



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 40,576
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

08 Apr 2017, 4:36 am

I think most Americans, unfortunately, are dismissive and uninterested in the arts and sciences. Most people think they should be making money rather than expressing oneself in the arts for arts sake.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


techstepgenr8tion
SomeRandomGuy
SomeRandomGuy

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 21,055
Location: The 27th Path of Peh.

08 Apr 2017, 9:52 pm

A culture's really a big collection of animals and it seems like they can only be pushed on to do so many things, and pick up on queues as to what social habits, interests, etc. help them fit in the center of the curve and be more relatable to other people for the life expediency that offers. To some extent not to be 'basic' like that per say almost takes being an outsider, having something different going on internally that other people don't generally share, and it's the more challenging type of life to live which is why I don't think most people really choose to be in the out or exploratory group unless they have no choice either due to circumstance or due to their own internal pressures.

Another way to look at it - if we were to try and draw some type of conclusion about what priorities in life are from the way it treats us, it seems like that set of priorities is get born, procreate, take care of your offspring, die. Nature throws a lot of variant personalities and body types against the wall to see what sticks, does so mindless of any sort of story you might tell yourself or desire for ongoing growth you might have, and it seems like what makes up success in the mainstream circuit, ie. the get status, get the best possible mate to have the best possible children with, etc. is very different from what works in the creative circuit. That doesn't mean that you'll never have people who are successful in both but it seems far more often the case that great art, music, etc.. come from deep pain and very honest/critical examinations of life, culture, meaning, etc..

In that sense I think Philistinism is really part-in-parcel with the human procreative engine where almost every trinket you can pick up will have something to do with climbing a social ladder and if it doesn't help you climb a social ladder then you're worse off for bothering with it, otherwise if its neutral its dead weight. Obscure genres of music, art, literature, etc. are all damage and no gain to a person whose working strategy is be as much like everyone else as possible for the sake of easy power and hierarchical status.


_________________
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privelege of owning yourself" - Rudyard Kipling


kitesandtrainsandcats
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2016
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,029
Location: Missouri

08 Apr 2017, 10:31 pm

At the moment I'm more interested in seeing what others' thoughts are than in sorting out my own.
While this may not be directly the thing it may connect to parts of it.

Quote:
I keep seeing similar opinions, ad nauseam, on the arts pages of US papers. “Can the old masters be relevant again?” asked the New York Times last year – and the answer given was far from reassuring. I don’t know if young Americans are really as ignorant as these media moaners claim, but there is certainly a scary mood of philistinism emanating from cultural commentary itself stateside. “The musty paintings of old masters feel entirely out of touch to a youth eager for sexuality, irony and diversity,” according a recent article on Salon. What could The Starry Night possibly contribute to the the life of a 21-year-old woman of colour who is working as a hostess while finishing a computer science degree?”
To which the obvious answer is that Van Gogh’s Starry Night can mean as much to her as it can to anyone, for it is a cosmic vision with universal human significance painted by a man whose own life was not exactly easy or cosy.
Is this kind of cultural pessimism for real? Is Trump’s America a place where great art no longer means anything to anyone – not even MoMA’s Starry Night or all those Rembrandts and Vermeers in the Met?

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/jon ... ilistinism

Quote:
The philistine thing again. Oddly enough, it's a word in declining use, the victim of multiple forces, as we will see.
Atlas used it in its more familiar sense. Philistines are generally understood to be resistant to ideas, disdainful of provocative or high-minded art and preoccupied with money, flash and other things crass.
Wieseltier seemed to use the word the way most critics would use "middlebrow" - a catchall for tasteful but ultimately flaccid culture. "Masterpiece Theatre" is middlebrow. The Bud Bowl is philistine.
Some culture critics now contend, in effect, that the struggle against philistinism is lost. Will the very term be in topical use 10 years from now?
No, says Paul Fussell, author of the 1992 book "BAD - Or, the Dumbing of America" (Summit Books).
"The word is five syllables long, after all," he says dryly. "It's rapidly out of reach of most Americans."

"The whole concept has evaporated, because it's the norm," agrees James B. Twitchell, author of the 1992 "Carnival Culture - The Trashing of Taste in America" (Columbia University Press).

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource. ... ug=1684115

It turns out as far back as 1959 people were writing about American Philistinism,
Quote:
In the Preface of the novella Goodbye, Columbus Roth clearly articulates his stands in the following lines:
“With clarity and with crudeness, and a great deal of exuberance, the embryonic writer who was me wrote these stories in his early twenties….. His cultural ambitions were formulated in direct opposition to the triumphant, suffocating American Philistinism of that time : he despised Time, Life, Hollywood, Television, The best Seller list, advertising copy, Rotary Clubs, Racial Prejudice and the American booster mentality” ( Preface).

The term “Philistinism” in general means an attitude of smug ignorance and conventionalism, especially towards artistic and cultural values. American Philistinism may be characterized by its pursuit of material prosperity, its business and money ethics superseding intellectual pursuit, its degrading value system both in the family and the personal relationship such as love wherein body overrides the minds; its preference to food and club culture bodily growth; over and above all these its rejection of traditional social, moral and religious values for the sake of suburban material and commonplace living.

In Goodbye, Columbus Roth presents his view against American Philistinism through the protagonist Neil Klugman’s first person narrative.

http://ijellh.com/philip-roths-goodbye- ... ilistinism


_________________
Some day I'll get it figured out; at least some of it, probably not all of it.


wrongcitizen
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 22 Oct 2016
Gender: Male
Posts: 696

09 Apr 2017, 1:31 am

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
At the moment I'm more interested in seeing what others' thoughts are than in sorting out my own.
While this may not be directly the thing it may connect to parts of it.
Quote:
I keep seeing similar opinions, ad nauseam, on the arts pages of US papers. “Can the old masters be relevant again?” asked the New York Times last year – and the answer given was far from reassuring. I don’t know if young Americans are really as ignorant as these media moaners claim, but there is certainly a scary mood of philistinism emanating from cultural commentary itself stateside. “The musty paintings of old masters feel entirely out of touch to a youth eager for sexuality, irony and diversity,” according a recent article on Salon. What could The Starry Night possibly contribute to the the life of a 21-year-old woman of colour who is working as a hostess while finishing a computer science degree?”
To which the obvious answer is that Van Gogh’s Starry Night can mean as much to her as it can to anyone, for it is a cosmic vision with universal human significance painted by a man whose own life was not exactly easy or cosy.
Is this kind of cultural pessimism for real? Is Trump’s America a place where great art no longer means anything to anyone – not even MoMA’s Starry Night or all those Rembrandts and Vermeers in the Met?

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/jon ... ilistinism

Quote:
The philistine thing again. Oddly enough, it's a word in declining use, the victim of multiple forces, as we will see.
Atlas used it in its more familiar sense. Philistines are generally understood to be resistant to ideas, disdainful of provocative or high-minded art and preoccupied with money, flash and other things crass.
Wieseltier seemed to use the word the way most critics would use "middlebrow" - a catchall for tasteful but ultimately flaccid culture. "Masterpiece Theatre" is middlebrow. The Bud Bowl is philistine.
Some culture critics now contend, in effect, that the struggle against philistinism is lost. Will the very term be in topical use 10 years from now?
No, says Paul Fussell, author of the 1992 book "BAD - Or, the Dumbing of America" (Summit Books).
"The word is five syllables long, after all," he says dryly. "It's rapidly out of reach of most Americans."

"The whole concept has evaporated, because it's the norm," agrees James B. Twitchell, author of the 1992 "Carnival Culture - The Trashing of Taste in America" (Columbia University Press).

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource. ... ug=1684115

It turns out as far back as 1959 people were writing about American Philistinism,
Quote:
In the Preface of the novella Goodbye, Columbus Roth clearly articulates his stands in the following lines:
“With clarity and with crudeness, and a great deal of exuberance, the embryonic writer who was me wrote these stories in his early twenties….. His cultural ambitions were formulated in direct opposition to the triumphant, suffocating American Philistinism of that time : he despised Time, Life, Hollywood, Television, The best Seller list, advertising copy, Rotary Clubs, Racial Prejudice and the American booster mentality” ( Preface).

The term “Philistinism” in general means an attitude of smug ignorance and conventionalism, especially towards artistic and cultural values. American Philistinism may be characterized by its pursuit of material prosperity, its business and money ethics superseding intellectual pursuit, its degrading value system both in the family and the personal relationship such as love wherein body overrides the minds; its preference to food and club culture bodily growth; over and above all these its rejection of traditional social, moral and religious values for the sake of suburban material and commonplace living.

In Goodbye, Columbus Roth presents his view against American Philistinism through the protagonist Neil Klugman’s first person narrative.

http://ijellh.com/philip-roths-goodbye- ... ilistinism


So I read everything you guys said but I just want to type this stupid little opinion for the hell of it. I think a computer science degree is good enough for me. It is not arts or culture but it is still a higher intellectual pursuit that will actually enhance and empower our civilization even if it is to a very small degree. This supposed woman is needed in our society. I would like to see more arts, but I'm after anything intellectual personally. I don't want to see our society fall into the dark ages again, but it seems we have in many parts of the world. Ignorance is our greatest enemy.



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 40,576
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

09 Apr 2017, 1:39 am

wrongcitizen wrote:
kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
At the moment I'm more interested in seeing what others' thoughts are than in sorting out my own.
While this may not be directly the thing it may connect to parts of it.
Quote:
I keep seeing similar opinions, ad nauseam, on the arts pages of US papers. “Can the old masters be relevant again?” asked the New York Times last year – and the answer given was far from reassuring. I don’t know if young Americans are really as ignorant as these media moaners claim, but there is certainly a scary mood of philistinism emanating from cultural commentary itself stateside. “The musty paintings of old masters feel entirely out of touch to a youth eager for sexuality, irony and diversity,” according a recent article on Salon. What could The Starry Night possibly contribute to the the life of a 21-year-old woman of colour who is working as a hostess while finishing a computer science degree?”
To which the obvious answer is that Van Gogh’s Starry Night can mean as much to her as it can to anyone, for it is a cosmic vision with universal human significance painted by a man whose own life was not exactly easy or cosy.
Is this kind of cultural pessimism for real? Is Trump’s America a place where great art no longer means anything to anyone – not even MoMA’s Starry Night or all those Rembrandts and Vermeers in the Met?

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/jon ... ilistinism

Quote:
The philistine thing again. Oddly enough, it's a word in declining use, the victim of multiple forces, as we will see.
Atlas used it in its more familiar sense. Philistines are generally understood to be resistant to ideas, disdainful of provocative or high-minded art and preoccupied with money, flash and other things crass.
Wieseltier seemed to use the word the way most critics would use "middlebrow" - a catchall for tasteful but ultimately flaccid culture. "Masterpiece Theatre" is middlebrow. The Bud Bowl is philistine.
Some culture critics now contend, in effect, that the struggle against philistinism is lost. Will the very term be in topical use 10 years from now?
No, says Paul Fussell, author of the 1992 book "BAD - Or, the Dumbing of America" (Summit Books).
"The word is five syllables long, after all," he says dryly. "It's rapidly out of reach of most Americans."

"The whole concept has evaporated, because it's the norm," agrees James B. Twitchell, author of the 1992 "Carnival Culture - The Trashing of Taste in America" (Columbia University Press).

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource. ... ug=1684115

It turns out as far back as 1959 people were writing about American Philistinism,
Quote:
In the Preface of the novella Goodbye, Columbus Roth clearly articulates his stands in the following lines:
“With clarity and with crudeness, and a great deal of exuberance, the embryonic writer who was me wrote these stories in his early twenties….. His cultural ambitions were formulated in direct opposition to the triumphant, suffocating American Philistinism of that time : he despised Time, Life, Hollywood, Television, The best Seller list, advertising copy, Rotary Clubs, Racial Prejudice and the American booster mentality” ( Preface).

The term “Philistinism” in general means an attitude of smug ignorance and conventionalism, especially towards artistic and cultural values. American Philistinism may be characterized by its pursuit of material prosperity, its business and money ethics superseding intellectual pursuit, its degrading value system both in the family and the personal relationship such as love wherein body overrides the minds; its preference to food and club culture bodily growth; over and above all these its rejection of traditional social, moral and religious values for the sake of suburban material and commonplace living.

In Goodbye, Columbus Roth presents his view against American Philistinism through the protagonist Neil Klugman’s first person narrative.

http://ijellh.com/philip-roths-goodbye- ... ilistinism


So I read everything you guys said but I just want to type this stupid little opinion for the hell of it. I think a computer science degree is good enough for me. It is not arts or culture but it is still a higher intellectual pursuit that will actually enhance and empower our civilization even if it is to a very small degree. This supposed woman is needed in our society. I would like to see more arts, but I'm after anything intellectual personally. I don't want to see our society fall into the dark ages again, but it seems we have in many parts of the world. Ignorance is our greatest enemy.


One can get a degree in something like computers, but still be interested in the arts.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Raptor
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,985
Location: Southeast U.S.A.

09 Apr 2017, 12:31 pm

Philistine here and proud of it. :D
People can study and create all the art the wan't but it better be able to stand on it's own financially without subtitles and grants at John Q. Taxpayer's expense.


_________________
“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
- William F. Buckley


Misslizard
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,895
Location: Aux Arcs

09 Apr 2017, 2:05 pm

Raptor wrote:
Philistine here and proud of it. :D
People can study and create all the art the wan't but it better be able to stand on it's own financially without subtitles and grants at John Q. Taxpayer's expense.

Don't your knuckles ever get sore from dragging them? :twisted:
It's possible that if a certain nefarious character was given a grant and allowed to attend art school millions of lives might have been saved.I did say might,no one will ever know for certain.But it's certainly a possibility,all that rage could have been channeled onto canvas instead of using people for a canvas.

Food for thought.
http://www.performingartsconvention.org/advocacy/id=28


_________________
"Security is mostly a superstition.It does not exist in nature,nor do the children of men as a whole experience it.Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure.Life is either a daring adventure,or nothing." Helen Keller


Last edited by Misslizard on 09 Apr 2017, 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

the_phoenix
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,489
Location: up from the ashes

09 Apr 2017, 2:23 pm

One of my mixed-media paintings recently won "Best of Show" at an art gallery.
It's a contemporary acrylic abstract.
And it sold before the opening reception.



Misslizard
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,895
Location: Aux Arcs

09 Apr 2017, 3:08 pm

the_phoenix wrote:
One of my mixed-media paintings recently won "Best of Show" at an art gallery.
It's a contemporary acrylic abstract.
And it sold before the opening reception.

Congratulations!! !


_________________
"Security is mostly a superstition.It does not exist in nature,nor do the children of men as a whole experience it.Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure.Life is either a daring adventure,or nothing." Helen Keller


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 40,576
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

09 Apr 2017, 4:28 pm

the_phoenix wrote:
One of my mixed-media paintings recently won "Best of Show" at an art gallery.
It's a contemporary acrylic abstract.
And it sold before the opening reception.
:thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


techstepgenr8tion
SomeRandomGuy
SomeRandomGuy

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 21,055
Location: The 27th Path of Peh.

09 Apr 2017, 4:36 pm

I think really neat things will happen when we have more AI and cheaper tools for building. Architecture could become a DIY thing, providing you're following local building codes, and I could see people who have a real artistic flare really bringing back the classics, sacred geometry in architecture, etc.. without having to worry too much as to who will fund the projects - I'd think the results will speak for themselves.

Also phoenix - awesome job! The arts IMHO are the soul of humanity, and as I mentioned soul seems to be a rare commodity in our social-Darwinian utilitarian world.


_________________
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privelege of owning yourself" - Rudyard Kipling


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 40,576
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

09 Apr 2017, 4:36 pm

Raptor wrote:
Philistine here and proud of it. :D
People can study and create all the art the wan't but it better be able to stand on it's own financially without subtitles and grants at John Q. Taxpayer's expense.


Were it not for the Princes who were the patrons of artists like DaVinci and others, which was public funding, there would have been no Renaissance. If we subsidize business grants and the military, why not the arts? Admittedly though, not all art is financed by the government, as plenty is created by starving artists who finally get a break in the free market.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


techstepgenr8tion
SomeRandomGuy
SomeRandomGuy

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 21,055
Location: The 27th Path of Peh.

09 Apr 2017, 4:38 pm

The reason IMHO Philistinism isn't a thing to be proud of, now matter how evolutionarily pragmatic it might be, it completely ignores the subconscious functioning of society. That has to stay healthy, otherwise you have a society that's just not worth living in.


_________________
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privelege of owning yourself" - Rudyard Kipling


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 40,576
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

09 Apr 2017, 4:52 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
The reason IMHO Philistinism isn't a thing to be proud of, now matter how evolutionarily pragmatic it might be, it completely ignores the subconscious functioning of society. That has to stay healthy, otherwise you have a society that's just not worth living in.


Very well said.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer