Are my views on forgiveness Aspie-like?

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I was not raised under any specific religion, so when I learned that in Christianity forgiveness involved letting go of any desire for revenge against a person who wronged you whether they actually apologized or not, I was surprised. I always believed that you could only forgive someone if they sincerely expressed remorse for their actions and pledged to make up for them. At least that's how I'd define it. If someone wronged me and showed absolutely no remorse, I would hold a very strong grudge against them until they made for their mistake. I'd despise them immensely and while I wouldn't actively seek retribution and would move on with my life so that they wouldn't be the only thing I'd focus on, I would not let go of any hostility until they earned my forgiveness back. A lot of Christians are telling me my views on forgiveness go against their teachings and seem very harsh. Do my views on forgiveness sound aspie-like?

I always felt like they raise ASD people to be sociopaths.

1. They sensory torture the heck out of us.
2. They relentlessly humiliate us.
3. They try to beat our ASD-behavior to a pulp.

Most of my life, I took the abuse.

About eight years ago, a person not only took advantage of me, but also lectured me that I was stupid to let him. They way he phrased it was, "I was stupid to put myself in a position where he could take advantage of me".

I did not wait for forgiveness. I took sweet revenge.

I always tell people that forgiveness is just a way of enabling your abuser. It seems like at least in your case, that was indeed the case. Doesn't anyone get that forgiveness all but means: "Okay, we're cool again and I'm not holding anything against you?". People use that as a one-way ticket to torturing people. If you say: "No, we're not f*****g cool until you get your s**t together", then the person knows you have limits that will not be crossed without consequence.

I think, the discussion assumes that there are normative rules of behavior, which, in the Christian view, are set by God.

If someone is going to be punished, it would be done for moral reasons, and not to satisfy the pride of the aggrieved party (ie. to make me feel better, look good, look powerful).

There are Biblical punishments, which generally do not pertain to shame and status, so much as repairing some nameable damage, objectively. For instance, I have never particularly seen where caging is prescribed, by the Bible. You would cover financial losses.

No, they just sound human-like----meaning, LOTS of people handle transgressions against them, this way----but, here's the thing..... What does "holding a very strong grudge", "despising", and "not letting go of any hostility", getcha? Who do you think will be hurt by those feelings? Not your transgressor----ESPECIALLY, if you don't tell them what they've done that angered or hurt you, or whatever.

It never ceases to amaze me that Aspies expect things of others, that THEY (the Aspies), can't do----meaning, alot of Aspies want people to be totally upfront with them, give details, and not expect them (the Aspies) to be able to read someone's mind; but, yet, those same Aspies don't / won't tell others, exactly how they feel, and, seemingly, expect others to read-their-mind.

How 'bout, this..... When someone you know, hurts or angers you, or whatever, TELL them----if you can't find the words, ATT, think-of / practice what you want them to know, for the next time you see them. Meanwhile, DON'T seethe----because, remember, they might not have any idea that they hurt / angered you (just like alot of us Aspies can't tell when we've done that, to people - also, alot of us are too overly-sensitive, for our own good)----and, just allow yourself, to, instead, fill-up with confidence that you're gonna, TACTFULLY, put them in their place, the next time you see them (I say tactfully", because you don't want to stoop to their level, in case they actually hurt you, intentionally).

This way, it gives someone a chance to defend themselves----like I said, they might not have the slightest clue that they hurt you----THEN, if they don't apologize, or act remorseful, or whatever, stay-away from them. If they ask you what's wrong, repeat what you told them, before, and walk-away; they'll get the message.


I might agree that "forgiveness is just a way of enabling your abuser"----but, that's only if you TELL them, and they continually do things you've asked them not to, and you continue to tell them you forgive them.

Forgiveness is for the person who has been done wrong, moreso than for the person who DID the wrong. When one doesn't forgive someone, it can absolutely eat them up inside, make them bitter, etc., toward everybody else whom they encounter. IMO, people who hold grudges, hate, and so-forth, create a barrier to chances of fully experiencing many, MANY things in life, that could otherwise be fulfilling----chances at love, happiness, contentment, etc.----because, they have insisted on holding a grudge against somebody. Meanwhile, that other person, not realizing they hurt the first person, has lived a care-free life, having fun, going places, making friends, getting married, raising a family (if they're lucky, and their life didn't suck, for other reasons)----so, who wins here?

Also, what if somebody whom, chances are, you'll never see again, as-long-as-you-live, hurts you? Are you gonna hold a grudge against THEM, for the rest of your life? Let's say you went grocery shopping and somebody was unbelievably cruel to you, by hollering at you, and calling you a retard----if you hold a grudge, and don't forgive them, then it's quite possible that the next time you encounter someone who's not even INTENTIONALLY trying to hurt you, you'll over-react and bite their head off, because of displaced emotions and not working-through / letting go of the incident, in the grocery store.

I'm not talking about TELLING them you forgive them----as in the instance of the person in the grocery store; they don't deserve to be told that----I'm talking-about just letting it go / releasing it from festering, inside you; cuz, IMO, if you don't, the feelings of hatred and bitterness, and so-forth will just build and build and build, until uhp, there's that ol' big bad barrier to happiness, freedom, joy, fulfillment, etc. YOUR choice!!

Actually, I am very upfront to people when they have wronged me. I always try to determine if the person actually meant any harm first. If they sincerely tell me they did not intend any harm and that it was just a misunderstanding, of course I will forgive the person. It's unfair to make a judgment before getting the facts. If I hear their account and they admit to a wrongdoing but express no remorse or intention to apologize, then they get NO forgiveness at all until they show remorse and apologize. It's that simple. To me, there's a clear difference between forgiving and moving on. I always move on when people have wronged me, even if they do not immediately show me remorse. By moving on, I mean that I'm not focusing solely on the mistake that the other person unrepentantly made. I focus on important aspects of my life, but I do not shed an ounce of animosity to the other person and continue to feel nothing more then hatred and ill-will towards them until they show remorse and make up for their crime.

People who have wronged me will fear me, that is my motto. I do not extend kindness to those who do not seek it and as such, anyone who intentionally wrongs me with ill intent should expect nothing but ill intent in return until they have repented. Regarding the "ret*d" scenario you brought up, I'd simply insult the person back on a similar level. I'm a snake minding my own business in that situation. If you provoke a snake, the snake will attack, it's the exact same principle. The concept of turning the other cheek revolts me to levels unprecedented. Forgiving them before they deserve it wouldn't keep them in line like I'm supposed to keep them in line.

I hope this cleared up confusion.

"... if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican (telōnēs) "
-- from Matt 18:15-17

telōnēs -- a tax gatherer, collector of taxes or tolls, one employed by a publican or farmer general in the collection of taxes. The tax collectors were as a class, detested not only by the Jews, but by other nations also, both on account of their employment and of the harshness, greed, and deception, with which they did their job.

In general, God is never assumed to forgive the unrepentant, and missionaries are never obliged to harass the disinterested.

But, I am careful to make a clarification, as to whether these disagreeable people are really committing any Biblical sins. We were taught against wearing bluejeans and being seen outside of a movie theater or liquor store. The pastor is standing in the place of God, when creating his own, new rules, out of nowhere.

Organized religion is nothing but crap. Apparently I'm going to hell just because I wear pants and my hair is short, which automatically makes me "masculine", and looking the opposite gender in any way is a huge sin.

People should not be forced to forgive someone, even if that person is truly sorry. It's up to that YOU, not whatever crap and BS organized religion tells you, whether or not you should forgive them. And if you are not ready to do so, it's their problem, not yours.

Christianity basically is telling us we must do what is the exact opposite of Aspie behavior or we'll all burn in hell.

I have seen pixie-ish hair and pants, that are definitely meant for girls.

Are you trying to be masculine, on purpose?

The Gospel can't spread if one is detestfull toward heathens, these are the very people that need to be saved am I right? Jesus even had dinner with a tax collectors. People point to this verse as some kind of justification of their bitterness towards someone, even though it's not. Wether or not a trespasser repents or not if you don't forgive him you won't be forgiven. Matthew 6:14–15, ‘If you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.’ Let him be as an heathen might mean to start over or wanting to help someone to get saved, those who believe in Jesus Christ don't need saving but heathens do. Many things can be implied by this verse but non of them involve not forgiving him.

(These references come from a free online searchword tool, called a concordance, which used to look like a big encyclopedia.)

Yes, assuming that they are ready and willing.

"...whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city."
-- Matt 10:14-15, Mar 6:1, Luk 9:5, Act 13:51

We weren't taught this way, because the church is usually a Ponzi scheme, looking for downline, in other words MLM, or shaking people down for cash.


And, turned over the tables of temple money changers.

What matters most, is not the sin, but whether they are repentant or unrepentant.


Then, some are forgiven, and some are not.

When we speak of trespasses, these are not assumed to be against our person, but against God.

It's not supposed to be, because I dislike your style of dress, or musical taste, or you sat in the wrong spot, or you're from the wrong social class. It would be a thief, murderer,or blasphemer -- not someone who got into a minor disagreement, with you.

Or, that's how it's supposed to work, by the Book.

In practice, most churches are very click-y.